The Trump Presidency...

[Steamboat]

UK covid numbers were heavily skewed to appear better than they were. Lots of care & old folk homes were not tested when people died. Also I know nobody that has been tested - even people I know that work in hospitals have not been tested. There is vast numbers that have died that were not tested, so the death toll is very much higher than what has been reported.
The USA/UK and western countries where there are high population rates, large percent of people are obese, people with cancer & other life threatening diseases & a large group of older people. Will always score higher on the amount of deaths there's been from Covid. Don't think the USA is any worse than anywhere else - it's not. There's just variables that haven't been taken into consideration - numbers can be skewed & don't show the full picture.

The elderly and immune compromised will be the hardest hit groups. But everybody out here was pretty sick in January and February. We all thought it was the flu and carried on. I know one person who had a confirmed case, and he is a 70’s something pensioner who stays pretty fit. Other than that it is pretty benign, even with the surge in cases due to reopening.

COVID-19 Map and Statistics - Wyoming Department of Health

health.wyo.gov

 

[Steamboat]

There are three clear factors.
The Southern States are getting smashed by Covid.
The Southern States are apparently the most cult like followers of Trump.
The Southern States are the ones where black lives don't matter.
There may be some connection between these things.

Hate to break it to Bubba, but the Blue States have been the ones crushed by COVID and the BLM protests.

 

[HectortheInspector]

Hate to break it to Bubba, but the Blue States have been the ones crushed by COVID and the BLM protests.

No, Cletus.
They were the ones hit FIRST.
Trump and his cultists have abandoned all the lessons learned, and are stoking the fires across the Red States through sheer pig ignorance and refusal to engage with reality.
Apart from California, which seems to be an outlier, all the hottest states are in the South, and the hottest of all are the ones who opened up early because Trump told them to. Arizona, Florida, Texas etc.
And oddly enough, they are mostly old Dixie States.
Here's a map.

America’s predictable, preventable surge in coronavirus cases, explained

America could have prevented another surge in coronavirus cases. It’s now clear it didn’t.

www.vox.com

 

[Steamboat]

No, Cletus.
They were the ones hit FIRST.
Trump and his cultists have abandoned all the lessons learned, and are stoking the fires across the Red States through sheer pig ignorance and refusal to engage with reality.
Apart from California, which seems to be an outlier, all the hottest states are in the South, and the hottest of all are the ones who opened up early because Trump told them to. Arizona, Florida, Texas etc.
And oddly enough, they are mostly old Dixie States.
Here's a map.

America’s predictable, preventable surge in coronavirus cases, explained

America could have prevented another surge in coronavirus cases. It’s now clear it didn’t.

www.vox.com

What do you think will happen to the Blue States once they come out of lockdown? This problem will not be limited to GOP only states, but people see the danger of remaining under indefinite lockdown to be worse than the Rona.

 

[Zemlyak]

But looking at the UK’s Covid outcomes, how can you say your system is any better? Looking at the raw numbers is not showing your system to be superior to our Byzantine way of doing business.

Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses, and you've picked one metric which even here in the UK many of us think that the government hasn't performed as best as it could.

One can always pick certain stats to suit the argument. With the graphs in this one for instance, the daily and cumulative rates for the US are shooting upwards whereas for the UK and many of the European countries they've flattening off.

graph of global coronavirus cases - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

And in this one and the others the US heads the total deaths etc., though the UK has more deaths per million than the US. The reason could be the UK being more densely populated for instance.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 125,424,136 Cases and 2,756,662 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

But picking other metrics, we in the UK as well as many other European, and other, countries, live on average longer than those in the US, which is ranked 46th below Cuba. Ouch.

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2023) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

Your infant mortality rate per 1000 live births is 5.8 compared to the UK's 4.3 and the EU average is 4. It's from the CIA so it must be true. I note it's 2017 figures but I doubt it would have changed that much.

The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

To pick up on your previous comment about freeloaders. As I understand it, the issue in the US was not the feckle unemployed getting something for nothing, it's those working who are not poor enough to get Medicaid (or whatever it's called) or can't get one of the other covers such as those for veterans, members of congress, or any other group entitled to cover, but those not eligible for any for any of these but not earning enough to afford insurance. That situation may have changed recently.

 

[SkippedOnce]

No, Cletus.
They were the ones hit FIRST.
Trump and his cultists have abandoned all the lessons learned, and are stoking the fires across the Red States through sheer pig ignorance and refusal to engage with reality.
Apart from California, which seems to be an outlier, all the hottest states are in the South, and the hottest of all are the ones who opened up early because Trump told them to. Arizona, Florida, Texas etc.
And oddly enough, they are mostly old Dixie States.
Here's a map.

America’s predictable, preventable surge in coronavirus cases, explained

America could have prevented another surge in coronavirus cases. It’s now clear it didn’t.

www.vox.com

Not quite , but the generalization is pretty reasonable.

'The more recent wave has hit the South and West, with cases rising in Arizona (REP) (a 125 percent increase in daily new cases over two weeks), Florida (REP) (250 percent), and Texas (REP) (177 percent), but also alarming increases in cases in Alabama (REP) (20 percent), California (DEM) (74 percent), Georgia (REP) (112 percent), Mississippi (REP) (74 percent), Nevada (DEM) (103 percent), North Carolina (DEM) (15 percent), Oklahoma (REP) (212 percent), and South Carolina (REP) (107 percent).'

 

[Steamboat]

Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses, and you've picked one metric which even here in the UK many of us think that the government hasn't performed as best as it could.

One can always pick certain stats to suit the argument. With the graphs in this one for instance, the daily and cumulative rates for the US are shooting upwards whereas for the UK and many of the European countries they've flattening off.

graph of global coronavirus cases - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

And in this one and the others the US heads the total deaths etc., though the UK has more deaths per million than the US. The reason could be the UK being more densely populated for instance.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 125,424,136 Cases and 2,756,662 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

But picking other metrics, we in the UK as well as many other European, and other, countries, live on average longer than those in the US, which is ranked 46th below Cuba. Ouch.

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2023) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

Your infant mortality rate per 1000 live births is 5.8 compared to the UK's 4.3 and the EU average is 4. It's from the CIA so it must be true. I note it's 2017 figures but I doubt it would have changed that much.

The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

To pick up on your previous comment about freeloaders. As I understand it, the issue in the US was not the feckle unemployed getting something for nothing, it's those working who are not poor enough to get Medicaid (or whatever it's called) or can't get one of the other covers such as those for veterans, members of congress, or any other group entitled to cover, but those not eligible for any for any of these but not earning enough to afford insurance. That situation may have changed recently.

I think population density is a big factor for the UK, but I imagine your BAME population is also taking it on the chin as well? I also think that in many cases it comes down to triage when you don't have the resources to deal with the number of critical patients. But I don't think that is going to be different in any part of the world. If you don't have the ability to realistically treat every patient, then doctors get to pick and choose whom has the best chance of survival and focus on them.

The wonderful thing about the US is that we can choose to be utter slobs and die early, or health fanatics and hopefully beat the national average.

We have many programs for low income individuals, but the attitude that government is responsible for all aspects of a persons life is not applicable in many parts of the country. People have a say in their own fate, and your actions determine much of how you live or don't live either.

 

[ipso_facto]

I had no idea Susan Rice, the former NSA to Obama, was such a caring person. She just tweeted the suicide hotline.



Remember this question from Lindsey Graham in the Kavanagh hearing about enemy combatants? It certainly got people's attention.

 

[SkippedOnce]

Further signalling of yet another case of Presidential selective memory.

'Three NATO officials say they had been briefed on intelligence that Russian operatives were secretly offering cash bounties to Taliban-linked militants for U.S. casualties in Afghanistan — as President Donald Trump claimed he was not, and dismissed news reports on the intelligence as a "possibly another fabricated Russia Hoax."

'The revelation that U.S. intelligence had briefed the White House on the Taliban bounties had been a closely-held secret for several months, until US officials began briefing UK and other European allies last week. The intelligence was first reported Friday in The New York Times and has since been widely confirmed. Over the weekend, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said neither Trump nor Vice President Mike Pence had been briefed on the intelligence. And on Sunday, Trump tweeted that U.S. intelligence "did not find this info credible" and did not report it to him or Pence, calling the Times report "possibly another fabricated Russia Hoax."

'However, three NATO military officials told Insider on Monday they had been briefed by U.S. intelligence of the potential threat, with two of them saying they were given the briefing about one week ago. None of the three officials have permission to be named in the press, but their identities are known to Insider. "We were briefed [by the Americans] on a potential threat to our troops in Afghanistan from operatives potentially linked to the Russian intelligence services," one NATO military intelligence official told Insider on Monday.

"There is no indication that our troops — or any non-U.S. NATO troops — have been targeted in these attacks, but all NATO services with casualties in Afghanistan over the past two years are currently checking for any connections." Two other NATO officials — who represent countries with troops who regularly support the NATO mission in Afghanistan — confirmed similar briefings. Twenty-six coalition members were killed in Afghanistan in 2019.'

NATO officials say they were briefed on Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan — even though Trump claims he wasn't

Three NATO officials say they had been briefed on intelligence that Russian operatives were secretly offering cash bounties to Taliban-linked militants for U.S. casualties in Afghanistan

taskandpurpose.com

 

[HectortheInspector]

I think population density is a big factor for the UK, but I imagine your BAME population is also taking it on the chin as well? I also think that in many cases it comes down to triage when you don't have the resources to deal with the number of critical patients. But I don't think that is going to be different in any part of the world. If you don't have the ability to realistically treat every patient, then doctors get to pick and choose whom has the best chance of survival and focus on them.

The wonderful thing about the US is that we can choose to be utter slobs and die early, or health fanatics and hopefully beat the national average.

We have many programs for low income individuals, but the attitude that government is responsible for all aspects of a persons life is not applicable in many parts of the country. People have a say in their own fate, and your actions determine much of how you live or don't live either.

Actually, you don't have that choice.

If you had a baseline Government scheme but the option to opt out of it, you would.

As it is, you have two options, based quite literally on 1) how rich you are (hint- look up Gini figures for wealth distribution) and 2)
how healthy you are at the time you applied for insurance.
If you are a rich healthy person, then you have medical cover. If you are poor and/or unhealthy, you don't.

We lost a lot of BAME. Statistically, they tended to be elderly, diabetic and overweight.
But most significantly, they usually worked in poorly paid service jobs in the health and social care sector, where they were heavily exposed to the virus.
The same dynamic is probably present in the US, but the signal is masked by the reporting.

You don't really have a "say in your fate".
America claims to offer social mobility, but in reality if you are poor, you stay that way.
And that means you are going to get sick more, and die sooner.

 

[Steamboat]

Actually, you don't have that choice.

If you had a baseline Government scheme but the option to opt out of it, you would.

As it is, you have two options, based quite literally on 1) how rich you are (hint- look up Gini figures for wealth distribution) and 2)
how healthy you are at the time you applied for insurance.
If you are a rich healthy person, then you have medical cover. If you are poor and/or unhealthy, you don't.

We lost a lot of BAME. Statistically, they tended to be elderly, diabetic and overweight.
But most significantly, they usually worked in poorly paid service jobs in the health and social care sector, where they were heavily exposed to the virus.
The same dynamic is probably present in the US, but the signal is masked by the reporting.

You don't really have a "say in your fate".
America claims to offer social mobility, but in reality if you are poor, you stay that way.
And that means you are going to get sick more, and die sooner.

America is the land of opportunity if you are willing to take the ones that are presented.

We poor folk can also get decent insurance, you just have to know where to work to get it.

 

[TXSapper]

Interestingly one of those big lies was Canadians going to America for treatment. The flow is from south to north.

Reid talked about a 700 bed hospital he visited in Canada. Two part timers came in at the end of the month to sort out the accounts and billings. He said a similar sized US hospital would have 200 people in the billing department.

Ironically the full time job of one of these part timers was billing Americans for medical treatment.

You cant be serious? Some if the shit you muppets will parrot is unreal. Funnily enough I have family that have travelled to the U.S from Canada for treatment...I guess they are the only ones.

 

[old_bloke]

Providing you are working. How many people in the US have lost their cover due to it being linked to their job or they can no longer pay due to no longer having a job. I note that some hospitals in the US are laying off nurses because they can't afford to pay them as the moneys not coming in.

How much does it cost to call an ambulance, a dental check up, and eye test. How many US citizens can't work because they can't afford glasses or go see an optician to get a prescription they can't afford as they can't work because they are unable to read print. With out my glasses I could not drive or read.

What is the cost to the US economy because these people can't work. The concept that free riders would sit at home is made up by the medical industry to scare you. There will be some I grant you but would it be greater than those who would now be able to work and pay their way.

My sister is a Dr in the US . She was put on furlough for two months. Still needed to pay a fortune for her medical insurance as if there is a mistake her arrse would be sued .

Now back at work as the hospital is now doing COVID -19 testing.

She hates the US system but is now part of it.

 

[HectortheInspector]

America is the land of opportunity if you are willing to take the ones that are presented.

We poor folk can also get decent insurance, you just have to know where to work to get it.

I am sure that the opportunity is ever so evenly distributed.
It is astonishing how many Apache property developers, Hispanic oil billionaires and Black hotel magnates have made it into the upper reaches of American society.
Oh.
No, they haven't, have they?

 

[Steamboat]

I am sure that the opportunity is ever so evenly distributed.
It is astonishing how many Apache property developers, Hispanic oil billionaires and Black hotel magnates have made it into the upper reaches of American society.
Oh.
No, they haven't, have they?

Then why did we have a mixed race President?