The Trump Presidency...

All the people I can see complaining so far are either democrats or luvvie media types and people getting a good poke from the bloke.

He's asked the NATO members to pick up their fair share of their costs. I think that's fair enough. He's said Merkel has undermined German national security with her unfettered immigration policy - she has. He's questioning PMTMs integrity re honouring a democratic referendum result - its a reasonable question.

Lets wait out and see what the reaction of the Republican party is and the US voter. If he gets a second term then people questioning the bloke will have clearly got it wrong
You are aware that there was a pre existing agreement and timescale for those NATO countries not meeting the 2% threshold to increase their defence spending, it's like Trump demanding that the sun comes up tomorrow then taking credit when it does.
 
You are aware that there was a pre existing agreement and timescale for those NATO countries not meeting the 2% threshold to increase their defence spending, it's like Trump demanding that the sun comes up tomorrow then taking credit when it does.
Much of the rhetoric is show for the US voter at home. We are dealing with an isolationist of the same cut as Coolidge as I previously said. He's also not the brightest of individuals, but then again, most politicians are unemployable as they are as thick as pig shit
 
You mean this luvvie and Democrat
View attachment 342595
I watched a debate in the US on US TV about US foreign policy before Trump was elected. It was the US equivalent to RUSI - the UK was not mentioned once in 90 minutes of discussion. They has a frog and a boxhead commenting on European defence policy. We are not seen as a player. It was fascinating.

I wouldnt place to much weight on the mention of 'our friend Britain' in the above quote. Its politics rather than what the septics think.
 
Much of the rhetoric is show for the US voter at home. We are dealing with an isolationist of the same cut as Coolidge as I previously said. He's also not the brightest of individuals, but then again, most politicians are unemployable as they are as thick as pig shit
Unless Coolidge was working for a hostile foreign power then we're not really talking the same thing at all.

There's absolutely no way you can look at that press conference today and not think something is seriously wrong. This isn't an American President not wanting to get involved in a European war, this is an American President standing next to the ex-KGB Russian President and attacking his own intelligence and law enforcement organisations while defending the Russian.
 

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I watched a debate in the US on US TV about US foreign policy before Trump was elected. It was the US equivalent to RUSI - the UK was not mentioned once in 90 minutes of discussion. They has a frog and a boxhead commenting on European defence policy. We are not seen as a player. It was fascinating.

I wouldnt place to much weight on the mention of 'our friend Britain' in the above quote. Its politics rather than what the septics think.
Sorry I should have put a name on it, somebody called John McCain
 
Unless Coolidge was working for a hostile foreign power then we're not really talking the same thing at all.

There's absolutely no way you can look at that press conference today and not think something is seriously wrong. This isn't an American President not wanting to get involved in a European war, this is an American President standing next to the ex-KGB Russian President and attacking his own intelligence and law enforcement organisations while defending the Russian.
I've never once not said Trump is not bonkers or his judgement is not open to question. I've merely picked apart one or two of his statements and commented on them on their merits (good, bad or indifferent).

In sidling up to Putin, he's got a tiger by the tail and he clearly doesnt know what he is dealign with. That said, the game is clearly changing re what constitutes a war. Data and the manipulation of it is playing an increasingly bigger part in foreign policy. I think contributors to this thread need to consider that when commenting on defence and security issues as the world we live in is changing and we need to move with the times.
 
All the people I can see complaining so far are either democrats or luvvie media types and people getting a good poke from the bloke.

He's asked the NATO members to pick up their fair share of their costs. I think that's fair enough. He's said Merkel has undermined German national security with her unfettered immigration policy - she has. He's questioning PMTMs integrity re honouring a democratic referendum result - its a reasonable question.

Lets wait out and see what the reaction of the Republican party is and the US voter. If he gets a second term then people questioning the bloke will have clearly got it wrong

None of which is relevant to the question about Russian influence, and its not just democrats or luvvies, it US intelligence services who are claiming this, no doubt you think they are lying, deep state, elitists or some shit
 
I'm over in a few weeks. It will be interesting to catch up on the feeling of people on the ground and the financial press. I wont watch CNN of Fox as they are both mental.

Like most septics, he doesnt get Europe on any level
Just like most Americans, we don't care to understand Europe either. Domestic issues tend to take priority over foreign policy issues. If we hit 3.5 percent growth and he manages to give Europe a Massive dose of butt hurt in the process it is winning!
 
this is an American President standing next to the ex-KGB Russian President and attacking his own intelligence and law enforcement organisations while defending the Russian.
The same ‘intelligence and law enforcement organisations’ that saw Hoover issuing his COINTELPRO memo’s?

-------------------------------------


SAC, Albany August 25, 1967

PERSONAL ATTENTION TO ALL OFFICES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


[From] Director, FBI

COUNTERINTELLIGENCE PROGRAM
BLACK NATIONALIST - HATE GROUPS
INTERNAL SECURITY


[...] The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to
expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or OTHERWISE NEUTRALIZE [emphasis
added] the activities of black nationalist hate-type organizations and
groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and
to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder. The activities
of all such groups of intelligence interest to the Bureau must be followed
on a continuous basis so we will be in a position to promptly take advantage
of all opportunities for counterintelligence and inspire action in instances
where circumstances warrant. The pernicious background of such groups,
their duplicity, and devious maneuvers must be exposed to public scrutiny
where such publicity will have a neautralizing effect. Efforts of the
various groups to consolidate their forces or to recruit new or youthful
adherents must be frustrated. NO OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE MISSED TO
EXPLOIT THROUGH COUNTERINTELLIGENCE TECHNIQUES THE ORGANIZATIONAL AND
PERSONAL CONFLICTS OF THE LEADERSHIPS OF THE GROUPS AND WHERE POSSIBLE AN
EFFORT SHOULD BE MADE TO CAPITALIZE UPON EXISTING CONFLICTS BETWEEN COMPETING
BLACK NATIONALIST ORGANIZATIONS. [emphasis added] When an opportunity is
apparent to disrupt or NEUTRALIZE [emphasis added] black nationalist, hate-
type organizations through the cooperation of established local news media
contacts or through such contact with sources available to the Seat of
Government [Hoover's office]*, in every instance careful attention must be
given to the proposal to insure the targetted group is disrupted, ridiculed,
or discredited through the publicity and not merely publicized...

You are also cautioned that the nature of this new endeavor is such
that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE EXISTENCE OF THE PROGRAM BE MADE
KNOWN OUTSIDE THE BUREAU [emphasis added] and appropriate within-office
security should be afforded to sensitive operations and techniques considered
under the program.

No counterintelligence action under this program may be initiated
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by the field without specific prior Bureau authorization. [Emphasis in orig.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---
 
1. Indeed its not. A vote is a vote in a democracy and you have to respect the result. At the end of the day, the US like the UK is a one man one vote democracy and Trump is their elected president.
3. No but its their system and you have to respect that as its not ours. We have parliamentary democracy and referendums.................,
4. yes absolutely. the points I was making is he is accountable to the voter and his political party. They are the only people that will get rid of him. The security services can piss and moan as much as they like. I'd bet you a tenner he'll see out the end of his term as the US economy is on fore with growth as a result of his tax policies, and people vote for the most part vote on what goes in the arrse pocket.

Do I like Trump? No - I think he's a bit of a dogs tail, but he's not my premier and there is bugger all I can do about it.

The US isnt a one man one vote system, otherwise he wouldnt be President, its all about the EC, not the popular vote
4. The US economy has been growing for the past 8 years, what exactly has he done?
 
None of which is relevant to the question about Russian influence, and its not just democrats or luvvies, it US intelligence services who are claiming this, no doubt you think they are lying, deep state, elitists or some shit
I find it difficult to separate out political comment from fact where Trump is concerned as he provokes outrage in all quarters. The commentary in US at the time Obama went was that Obama had succeeded in politicising the US intelligence services - whether thats true or not I cant say as I've not followed the commentary for some time. My inability to separate fact from emotion (and politics) is why I tend to form opinion based on outcomes rather than rhetoric - hence the observation earlier which I suggest people wait out before frothing on here. Trump does 180 degree turns regularly, and this may be no different
 
The same ‘intelligence and law enforcement organisations’ that saw Hoover issuing his COINTELPRO memo’s?

-------------------------------------


SAC, Albany August 25, 1967

PERSONAL ATTENTION TO ALL OFFICES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


[From] Director, FBI

COUNTERINTELLIGENCE PROGRAM
BLACK NATIONALIST - HATE GROUPS
INTERNAL SECURITY


[...] The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to
expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or OTHERWISE NEUTRALIZE [emphasis
added] the activities of black nationalist hate-type organizations and
groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and
to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder. The activities
of all such groups of intelligence interest to the Bureau must be followed
on a continuous basis so we will be in a position to promptly take advantage
of all opportunities for counterintelligence and inspire action in instances
where circumstances warrant. The pernicious background of such groups,
their duplicity, and devious maneuvers must be exposed to public scrutiny
where such publicity will have a neautralizing effect. Efforts of the
various groups to consolidate their forces or to recruit new or youthful
adherents must be frustrated. NO OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE MISSED TO
EXPLOIT THROUGH COUNTERINTELLIGENCE TECHNIQUES THE ORGANIZATIONAL AND
PERSONAL CONFLICTS OF THE LEADERSHIPS OF THE GROUPS AND WHERE POSSIBLE AN
EFFORT SHOULD BE MADE TO CAPITALIZE UPON EXISTING CONFLICTS BETWEEN COMPETING
BLACK NATIONALIST ORGANIZATIONS. [emphasis added] When an opportunity is
apparent to disrupt or NEUTRALIZE [emphasis added] black nationalist, hate-
type organizations through the cooperation of established local news media
contacts or through such contact with sources available to the Seat of
Government [Hoover's office]*, in every instance careful attention must be
given to the proposal to insure the targetted group is disrupted, ridiculed,
or discredited through the publicity and not merely publicized...

You are also cautioned that the nature of this new endeavor is such
that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE EXISTENCE OF THE PROGRAM BE MADE
KNOWN OUTSIDE THE BUREAU [emphasis added] and appropriate within-office
security should be afforded to sensitive operations and techniques considered
under the program.

No counterintelligence action under this program may be initiated
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by the field without specific prior Bureau authorization. [Emphasis in orig.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---
Yay! A Trumpette "What about". That took you some time to dream up. Well done you.

Now, just remember that your man in a Russky stooge, OK?
 
The effect of tax cuts is highly debatable.
Some economic theories say it will be invested.
Experience suggests it buys new Mercedes cars and speculative stock market bubbles.
The IMF states quite categorically that it has that Blackadderesque tiny flaw.

Tax cuts benefit the already rich. Not the poor, not the middle and not the country.
 
The US isnt a one man one vote system, otherwise he wouldnt be President, its all about the EC, not the popular vote
4. The US economy has been growing for the past 8 years, what exactly has he done?
As I said previously, whilst lots of people on the Beeb were frothing, the smart money went into the US. It has attracted huge investment from overseas investor on the back of Trumps inward investment policies to rejuvenate US industry.

How many major economies are there that are seeing quarter after quarter of negative growth (recession)? erm let me think about that one for a moment....
 

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