The Trump Presidency...

You’re funny too. Who knew?
What about what I wrote do you think is not true? Are you in denial about what I wrote, because you don't really explain why you don't agree. Instead you just utter some child like wit. Stick to facts - like I have.
 
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How’s the inauguration gone down with the average man on the street?
ha, The conservatives I know largely ignored it. We are back to being racist for being Pro secure border.

The few democrats I can talk politics with, know better than to talk to me about it. I know two dockworker/union guys who are dyed blue voters, but pro guns, anti illegals, pro pipeline. They are a little confused right now...
 
Will Biden knock down the wall?
 
I have seen individuals separated from their units into the crowd in NI twice, I am aware of several more incidents. I am not aware of any incident where live rounds were fired in order to recover them.
As I understood it (well aware that this may be the wrong end of the stick, and that it wasn't the correct response - but worked), in Coalisland, after the incident that had the Bde Comd, CO, and RSM looking for new jobs within the week. A week later, the first multiple into town had a brick get swarmed. Point man jumped, gunner had the GPMG grabbed, third man put a round into the sky (wrong, I'll grant you, but it made the crowd back off instantly) in time to stop the crowd from booting the point man to oblivion (ISTR a comment about Stanley knives slashing his front to bits as they were trying to cut his sling).

Do you believe that problems identified in one small town department with about 60 police officers is really reflective of what is happening with the other 700,000 or so? Because that wasn't what the DoJ thought.

The point that I was trying to make is that while Ferguson may be at the very end of the "racist cops" spectrum, it's a perfectly valid example in the modern era where (after years of denial) it was proved to be true.

You appear to be insisting that there is no unequal treatment in the use of lethal force due to skin colour, that it's all cultural and can be put down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" - and any statistics that say otherwise are just wrong. So I have to ask - have the attitudes that led to the Jim Crow laws, or the police that beat down Civil Rights protestors in Selma, disappeared? Or did they just fade and become less obvious?

Let's use Northern Ireland as a comparator: bigotry is open in the 1960s. Direct rule is imposed in the 1970s. By 1988, Ian Paisley is still shouting at the Pope and calling him the Antichrist. The Good Friday Agreement happens in the 1990s. Twenty years of affirmative action follows. Now, do you want to try walking down the wrong street in a Celtic strip (or a Rangers strip, for that matter)?

So why is it so hard to admit that US cops, who by and large haven't AIUI had similar effort put in to representing the populations they police, might just have enough remaining bigots to make it more likely that the colour of your skin affects how you're treated? Why should we believe that Ferguson was unique, nowhere else like it, absolutely not? It doesn't take that many.
 
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As I understood it (well aware that this may be the wrong end of the stick, and that it wasn't the correct response - but worked), in Coalisland, after the incident that had the Bde Comd, CO, and RSM looking for new jobs within the week. A week later, the first multiple into town had a brick get swarmed. Point man jumped, gunner had the GPMG grabbed, third man put a round into the sky (wrong, I'll grant you, but it made the crowd back off instantly) in time to stop the crowd from booting the point man to oblivion (ISTR a comment about Stanley knives slashing his front to bits as they were trying to cut his sling).



The point that I was trying to make is that while Ferguson may be at the very end of the "racist cops" spectrum, it's a perfectly valid example in the modern era where (after years of denial) it was proved to be true.

You appear to be insisting that there is no unequal treatment in the use of lethal force due to skin colour, that it's all cultural and can be put down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" - and any statistics that say otherwise are just wrong. So I have to ask - have the attitudes that led to the Jim Crow laws, or the police that beat down Civil Rights protestors in Selma, disappeared? Or did they just fade and become less obvious?

Let's use Northern Ireland as a comparator: bigotry is open in the 1960s. Direct rule is imposed in the 1970s. By 1988, Ian Paisley is still shouting at the Pope and calling him the Antichrist. The Good Friday Agreement happens in the 1990s. Twenty years of affirmative action follows. Now, do you want to try walking down the wrong street in a Celtic strip (or a Rangers strip, for that matter)?

So why is it so hard to admit that US cops, who by and large haven't AIUI had similar effort put in to representing the populations they police, might just have enough remaining bigots to make it more likely that the colour of your skin affects how you're treated? Why should we believe that Ferguson was unique, nowhere else like it, absolutely not? It doesn't take that many.

That's not even close to what actually happened at Coalisland.
 
That's not even close to what actually happened at Coalisland.
What, when a KOSB multiple lost a GPMG? And got it back a week later (with interest) when the ARF spotted two GPMGs being set up to shoot a helicopter? Just in case we're talking about different incidents, that is.
 
What, when a KOSB multiple lost a GPMG? And got it back a week later (with interest) when the ARF spotted two GPMGs being set up to shoot a helicopter? Just in case we're talking about different incidents, that is.

Yes. And that isn't even close to how the stolen GPMG was recovered either.
 
Yes. And that isn't even close to how the stolen GPMG was recovered either.
It's not directly relevant to the discussion, I just threw it in as an example - a friend was the Platoon Commander, even if it was his Platoon Sergeant's multiple that got jumped. We took the piss out of him for years.

Perfectly willing to admit that what I was told, wasn't entirely true, and that I've oversimplified the recovery...
 
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Oyibo

LE
As I understood it (well aware that this may be the wrong end of the stick, and that it wasn't the correct response - but worked), in Coalisland, after the incident that had the Bde Comd, CO, and RSM looking for new jobs within the week. A week later, the first multiple into town had a brick get swarmed. Point man jumped, gunner had the GPMG grabbed, third man put a round into the sky (wrong, I'll grant you, but it made the crowd back off instantly) in time to stop the crowd from booting the point man to oblivion (ISTR a comment about Stanley knives slashing his front to bits as they were trying to cut his sling).



The point that I was trying to make is that while Ferguson may be at the very end of the "racist cops" spectrum, it's a perfectly valid example in the modern era where (after years of denial) it was proved to be true.

You appear to be insisting that there is no unequal treatment in the use of lethal force due to skin colour, that it's all cultural and can be put down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" - and any statistics that say otherwise are just wrong. So I have to ask - have the attitudes that led to the Jim Crow laws, or the police that beat down Civil Rights protestors in Selma, disappeared? Or did they just fade and become less obvious?

Let's use Northern Ireland as a comparator: bigotry is open in the 1960s. Direct rule is imposed in the 1970s. By 1988, Ian Paisley is still shouting at the Pope and calling him the Antichrist. The Good Friday Agreement happens in the 1990s. Twenty years of affirmative action follows. Now, do you want to try walking down the wrong street in a Celtic strip (or a Rangers strip, for that matter)?

So why is it so hard to admit that US cops, who by and large haven't AIUI had similar effort put in to representing the populations they police, might just have enough remaining bigots to make it more likely that the colour of your skin affects how you're treated? Why should we believe that Ferguson was unique, nowhere else like it, absolutely not? It doesn't take that many.

You are basing your argument on an incident which you haven't a clue about.

But carry on.
 
As I understood it (well aware that this may be the wrong end of the stick, and that it wasn't the correct response - but worked), in Coalisland, after the incident that had the Bde Comd, CO, and RSM looking for new jobs within the week. A week later, the first multiple into town had a brick get swarmed. Point man jumped, gunner had the GPMG grabbed, third man put a round into the sky (wrong, I'll grant you, but it made the crowd back off instantly) in time to stop the crowd from booting the point man to oblivion (ISTR a comment about Stanley knives slashing his front to bits as they were trying to cut his sling).



The point that I was trying to make is that while Ferguson may be at the very end of the "racist cops" spectrum, it's a perfectly valid example in the modern era where (after years of denial) it was proved to be true.

You appear to be insisting that there is no unequal treatment in the use of lethal force due to skin colour, that it's all cultural and can be put down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" - and any statistics that say otherwise are just wrong. So I have to ask - have the attitudes that led to the Jim Crow laws, or the police that beat down Civil Rights protestors in Selma, disappeared? Or did they just fade and become less obvious?

Let's use Northern Ireland as a comparator: bigotry is open in the 1960s. Direct rule is imposed in the 1970s. By 1988, Ian Paisley is still shouting at the Pope and calling him the Antichrist. The Good Friday Agreement happens in the 1990s. Twenty years of affirmative action follows. Now, do you want to try walking down the wrong street in a Celtic strip (or a Rangers strip, for that matter)?

So why is it so hard to admit that US cops, who by and large haven't AIUI had similar effort put in to representing the populations they police, might just have enough remaining bigots to make it more likely that the colour of your skin affects how you're treated? Why should we believe that Ferguson was unique, nowhere else like it, absolutely not? It doesn't take that many.
6.5% of the population commit 50% of the homicides... you think that same 6.5% should be shot by police in equal numbers as the rest of the population... because racial justice?

Clearly you aren’t in Law enforcement.
 
6.5% of the population commit 50% of the homicides... you think that same 6.5% should be shot by police in equal numbers as the rest of the population... because racial justice?

Clearly you aren’t in Law enforcement.
No, I'm suggesting that the use of force should be dependent on behaviour, not skin colour.

But you're right, I'm not in Law Enforcement.

 
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You are basing your argument on an incident which you haven't a clue about.

But carry on.
Well, please explain which parts I got wrong, seeing as you're the expert.

Now, I could have been told utter bollocks, my memory may be screwed by old age, or even he might have been told a selected version of the truth - but given that it was described to me by the Platoon Commander concerned, I thought it was reasonable to mention.
 

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
It is the duty of the British to try and uplift the primitive colonials into civilisation.
However thankless the task.
You should approve. Kipling called it the White Mans Burden.
I don't think he envisaged us having to do it to white people in pointy white hats.

Noblesse oblige?
 

Oyibo

LE
Well, please explain which parts I got wrong, seeing as you're the expert.

Now, I could have been told utter bollocks, my memory may be screwed by old age, or even he might have been told a selected version of the truth - but given that it was described to me by the Platoon Commander concerned, I thought it was reasonable to mention.

You are conflating two separate, though related, incidents - 3 PARA and KOSB
 

Papa_Lazarou

War Hero
No, I'm suggesting that the use of force should be dependent on behaviour, not skin colour.

But you're right, I'm not in Law Enforcement.

You don’t think that if a very small minority (that commits a massively disproportionate amount of homicides and violent crime) might ‘just’ be involved in police shootings in a similarly disproportionate amount?
 

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