The Trump Presidency...

If you were still expected to show up and do your day job, would you? Or would you not?
Given that my last Job until I retired was as a State Trooper, what do you think?

Some people in certain occupations didn't have much of a choice and those people would have been safer if they didn't have to deal with eejits who think pretty much along the same line as you.

Besides, I believe there is already a thread for the virus so I'll let this be my last words on the subject.
 
Given that my last Job until I retired was as a State Trooper, what do you think?

Some people in certain occupations didn't have much of a choice and those people would have been safer if they didn't have to deal with eejits who think pretty much along the same line as you.

Besides, I believe there is already a thread for the virus so I'll let this be my last words on the subject.
That you would be in the same boat as many other state employees classified as essential. Which turns out to be a hell of a lot of people in small population states.
 
No 'mate' you're the one who's head is buried up your our arse. You made a claim, and when your facts were exposed as bullshit, you went all mong. You still have have nothing.

No I didn't go all mong, I gave you some more facts which you seem to have a problem accepting, hell your last post with the "pathetic" reply shows that.

Dude, you ran out of debate and you resorted to one line answers such as "Bullshit" without any reasonable argument to back it up, failing that you resorted to insults.
 
Probably because we have already had it, and I have been exposed to a few people who came down with it and haven’t managed to keel over just yet. But the economy is going to $hit and I am 30 years from retirement.
But others 'who came down with it' could have got it because you passed it on to them.

You know, while I don’t always agree with your politics or world view, you’ve never struck me as being thick, so I find it hard to understand why you can’t get you’re head around this really simple concept, to wit that you yourself may be a carrier of the virus and never show symptoms, but quite casually pass it on to others who will be seriously affected, if not killed.

It’s like you (and a great many of your countrymen) revel in the idea of being Typhoid Mary.

Weird.
 
realistic BB guns are recorded as ‘illegal firearms’
I don't believe that any of the people I have shown that were shot in the UK were actually shot with a BB gun regardless of the guns legal status. And I really don't believe the Eastie Beasties over the English Channel are selling and smuggling in BB guns either.

Seriously now! Do you think it's BB guns being smuggled into the country? Believe me when I say I don't want the UK ending up like the US as far as gun crime goes, but like I have already said, the criminals don't care about no gun laws mate.
 
Ex-FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith will plead guilty to falsifying Russia probe doc

An ex-FBI lawyer will plead guilty to doctoring an email that led his agency to wiretap a former Trump campaign adviser, officials said Friday — which the president claimed is clear proof he has been “spied on.”



 
No I didn't go all mong, I gave you some more facts which you seem to have a problem accepting, hell your last post with the "pathetic" reply shows that.

Dude, you ran out of debate and you resorted to one line answers such as "Bullshit" without any reasonable argument to back it up, failing that you resorted to insults.
And you still haven't managed to provide an answer as to your 'lots' lie, against the numerical facts, 'dude'.

 
Ex-FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith will plead guilty to falsifying Russia probe doc

An ex-FBI lawyer will plead guilty to doctoring an email that led his agency to wiretap a former Trump campaign adviser, officials said Friday — which the president claimed is clear proof he has been “spied on.”


Durham Strike 1:

Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith will plead guilty to making a false statement in the first criminal case arising from U.S. Attorney John Durham's review of the investigation into links between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign, two sources close to the matter tell Fox News.

Read the charging document from the Justice Department below:








It's what Trump said from the beginning, Illegal spying by the St barry of Obama Administration enabled by lying to get warrants to spy on a duly elected President, and this is just the beginning. Pay attention to the names...





And now the world's largest police force, NYPD has endorsed Trump with more likely to follow.
I hope the left learn a hard lesson about this destructive scorched earth policy and have a hard think about who they allow imbibing their "unhinged conspiracy theories".

 
And you still haven't managed to provide an answer as to your 'lots' lie, against the numerical facts, 'dude'.

Again and for the last time I am not comparing, and as I have previously said I am well aware of the US numbers but it's not about that.

Look you have Police Chiefs telling you there is a gun smuggling and gun crime problem starting to get out of hand in the UK and as far as the smuggling thing goes the Police and Border Protection Agency have admitted they aren't winning the fight.

The guys that are going to have those illegal guns will be the gangs. We are talking a lot of money here mate and those gangs will do whatever it takes to protect that and if that means buying guns to do it, well what do think is going to happen? Then the government will ban all private firearm ownership :wtf:, and a year later folks will wonder why they are still hearing or reading about people being shot.

C'mon look at just last week alone what four or five shootings in a week. Call it bullshit again if you feel so inclined but I will say just look to the major US cities and their gangs for a possible insight of coming to a town near you in the future if the Police And Border Protection folks can't put a lid on the gun running.
 
But others 'who came down with it' could have got it because you passed it on to them.

You know, while I don’t always agree with your politics or world view, you’ve never struck me as being thick, so I find it hard to understand why you can’t get you’re head around this really simple concept, to wit that you yourself may be a carrier of the virus and never show symptoms, but quite casually pass it on to others who will be seriously affected, if not killed.

It’s like you (and a great many of your countrymen) revel in the idea of being Typhoid Mary.

Weird.
I get the concept, but in life you get to roll the dice and take your chances.

Your solution is what? To lock down indefinitely until a vaccine is produced and out in mass.

But risk managements have been done, and conclusions were made. I can’t do my job at home full time, it was decided for me that I would be required to go to the office and run my program. If I did not do that, I don’t have a designated replacement and people will get maimed or killed. Public safety was
not something that was going to slide.
We were issued no ppe, and were told to wing it and go with God. I haven’t worn a mask at work once and none of the workmates have gotten the Rona...

So far minus the 29 people who have passed from the Virus, it has done more economic harm then anything else.

I don’t know what more you expect.
People know the risks, and have a choice to make. If you want to stay home, do so. But at some point you come to realize that you can’t hide our forever. Life will go on for the vast majority, so maybe some stiff upper lip is needed.
 

Azul_R

Old-Salt
Thank you for your explanation of life in California though I am aware of much of what you said is already known by those of us who live not too far from California. You don't think being a sanctuary State is contributing to California's woes?
First of all, I'm not sure that I sign up to your idea of "Califiornia's woes". As I said earlier, CA has a bigger GDP than the UK while having only two thirds of the population and for better or worse it's the place where much of the future is being crafted, see Google, Facebook, Apple etc.

As for sanctuary state, I've not greatly followed that but it seems an extension of sanctuary city and at most has a tertiary effect. The thing is that it's not really a sanctuary, someone who's paid smuggled $10,000 or more to get them out of Guatemala and into the US can't cry "sanctuary" on entering California like some medieval fugitive claiming sanctuary in a church. The left might play up the word "sanctuary" to annoy the right, and the right might play up the word "sanctuary" to imply that the left have given away too much, but if you look from somewhere in the middle it's all very much exaggerated.

I have a son in law who manages a family run restaurant, where they're very picky on being sure that they're only hiring people who are legally able to work. A few years ago he was telling me of the immigration people raiding the Chinese restaurant a few doors down. Some of his people from the kitchen came out to the front to watch the commotion (as opposed to doing a runner out of the back door), with the cooks from the Chinese restaurant scattering through the car park trying to dodge their way around the ICE folk. There is no sanctuary whatever people might say.

There seems a plausible argument to try to separate out immigration enforcement from normal law and order. If there's a domestic that sounds to be getting way too serious, you want the neighbors to call the cops. If they're citizens or legal residents but know that their other next door neighbor has a nephew that isn't, or they're sharing a house with a couple of people who would prefer not to have their immigration status looked at, then they'll be a lot more reluctant to call the police. Back when there was more variation between cities in how things were handled it was possible for academics to compare results. I can't claim any kind of proof but have a vague memory that there was some evidence that going lighter on possible immigration offenses allowed for better results on the non-immigration side. I may or may not be right on that but there's a decent argument to be made that non-cooperation with the immigration agencies while in the course of normal policing can give better results.

Things would be a bit different in other areas, like what to do if someone is coming to the end of their jail time for their third drunk driving offense. There is a wide range of possible actions. At one extreme, they could be held indefinitely, without any kind of due process, while the prison authorities try to check every now and then that their message to the immigration people didn't get dropped at the spam filter. At the other extreme, they could be let out of the side door at a time when the coast seems clear. I _think_ it's a bit closer to the latter than the former. That wouldn't be my preference but, although it might seem a big moral question about how to treat people, the numbers involved are too small to be making much of an impact on the state as a whole.

Basically it's a sideshow that serves to rile up people on both sides of the divide.
 
The following is for @Steamboat in particular to consider. This isn't the COVID-19 thread so I don't want a discussion on the details of that here. But COVID-19 is probably the biggest political crisis that most of us will see in our own countries in our lifetimes, or at least I hope it is for the sakes of everyone reading this. So, I'll present some numbers here which have political implications.

The following numbers come from the Worldometers web site, which has been widely quoted on this site for numbers.

Here's the top 10 countries ranked in terms of deaths per million (deaths/M). It also has total deaths (deaths), deaths per day (deaths/D) as of yesterday, and population in millions. I've excluded micro-states such as San Marino from the list.

Country​
Deaths/M​
Deaths​
Deaths/D​
Population​
1​
Belgium​
855​
9916​
16​
11.6​
2​
Peru​
783​
25856​
208​
33​
3​
Spain​
612​
28617​
12​
46.8​
4​
UK​
609​
41358​
11​
67.9​
5​
Italy​
583​
35234​
3​
60.5​
6​
Sweden​
572​
5783​
7​
10.1​
7​
Chile​
540​
10340​
41​
19.1​
8​
USA​
518​
171535​
1120​
331​
9​
Brazil​
501​
106571​
1007​
213​
10​
Mexico​
428​
55293​
627​
129​


I will use the same deaths per day figure and project it forward. I realise that attempting to predict the future is fraught with peril, but bear with me.

Here's the same list in two weeks time, or roughly the end of this month. It hasn't changed much except that Brazil has passed the US in terms of deaths per million.

Country​
Deaths/M​
Deaths​
1​
Belgium​
874​
10140​
2​
Peru​
872​
28768​
3​
Spain​
615​
28785​
4​
UK​
611​
41512​
5​
Italy​
583​
35276​
6​
Sweden​
582​
5881​
7​
Chile​
571​
10914​
8​
Brazil​
567​
120669​
9​
USA​
566​
187215​
10​
Mexico​
497​
64071​


Here it is in 4 weeks, or roughly mid-September. The US have passed Italy, Sweden, and Chile, and are tied with the UK. The US have passed the 200,000 deaths mark.

Country​
Deaths/M​
Deaths​
1​
Peru​
960​
31680​
2​
Belgium​
893​
10364​
3​
Brazil​
633​
134767​
4​
Spain​
619​
28953​
5​
UK​
614​
41666​
6​
USA​
613​
202895​
7​
Chile​
601​
11488​
8​
Sweden​
592​
5979​
9​
Italy​
584​
35318​
10​
Mexico​
565​
72849​


Here it is in 6 weeks time, or roughly the beginning of October. The US are now in 4th place, behind only Peru, Belgium, and Brazil. Following the US are Mexico and Chile. The next highest European country is Spain, in 7th place, and well behind the US.

Country​
Deaths/M​
Deaths​
1​
Peru​
1048​
34592​
2​
Belgium​
913​
10588​
3​
Brazil​
699​
148865​
4​
USA​
660​
218575​
5​
Mexico​
633​
81627​
6​
Chile​
632​
12062​
7​
Spain​
622​
29121​
8​
UK​
616​
41820​
9​
Sweden​
602​
6077​
10​
Italy​
584​
35360​

Again, I want to emphasize the need to be cautious about projecting current trends forward, but this is the current direction of travel.

Until now many Americans have been telling themselves "well things are going well, but at least we've done better than the worst places in Europe". Except that unless the US get things under control, by the time the election gets close the US are going to be doing measurably worse than any country in Europe aside from Belgium. The countries the US will be bracketed by will be a set of Latin American third world countries (aside from Belgium).

And if we take a "Europe" (EU + UK + Switzerland + Norway) wide average rather than just picking out the hot spots, the US at 518 deaths per million are already much higher than the number for "Europe", which is 345 deaths per million (181,355 deaths in a population of 526,090,604).

I'm going to take a guess that the opposition party in the US aren't going to let these sorts of numbers go by without comment. They'll point out that at the time when the US needed leadership the most, Trump was found to be sadly lacking.

All of this may have a significant political effect in the US. The opposition don't have to convince Trump's supporters to vote for them. All that has to happen is for enough of Trump's former supporters to decide to stay home and not vote.

Again, I'll emphasize that the above linear projections are not a pandemic model, and the numbers are not likely to come out exactly as the above tables suggest. However, the current trajectory is not good, and unless things change Trump is going to have an increasingly difficult time explaining it away.
 

Azul_R

Old-Salt
I get the concept, but in life you get to roll the dice and take your chances.
But before you roll the dice you do the best you can to weight it in your favor.

Your solution is what? To lock down indefinitely until a vaccine is produced and out in mass.
The thing is that the best response for the economy is also the best response medically. Lock down hard and stay locked down until the virus has been driven down to negligible levels. Open up gradually, being ready to reverse course as soon as things look to be getting the slightest bit worse. Make sure the people understand that in the worst case there will have to be another strict lockdown

But risk managements have been done, and conclusions were made. I can’t do my job at home full time, it was decided for me that I would be required to go to the office and run my program. If I did not do that, I don’t have a designated replacement and people will get maimed or killed. Public safety was
not something that was going to slide.
We were issued no ppe, and were told to wing it and go with God. I haven’t worn a mask at work once and none of the workmates have gotten the Rona...
You may not have been issued with PPE but that doesn't mean you couldn't use your own initiative. I've happily let the son in law who is an experimental physicist do the research on best mask designs and materials, so we now have an indefinite stock of what would be about an N80 standard mask, but even the standard cloth masks are a whole lot better than nothing. Why not have a mask as one little extra bit of trying to keep the odds in your favor, and set a good example to the rest of the people you come into contact with?
I don’t know what more you expect.
People know the risks, and have a choice to make. If you want to stay home, do so. But at some point you come to realize that you can’t hide our forever. Life will go on for the vast majority, so maybe some stiff upper lip is needed.
Stiff upper lip until the virus has swept through the population and left a million and more dead, and millions with long term health issues?

I would like a choice to get on my bike and do my usual gentle five mile slightly uphill ride to my favorite watering hole and then the blessedly downhill gentle ride home. I don't care what the official stance is for opening or not, I'll be looking at what's going on around me and until I'm sure it's safe then I'm staying home That's what I think the statistics show, that when New York finally locked down it didn't make much difference because people were already locking themselves down out of fear. The way to open up the economy is to remove the fear, and that's not done by exhortations or public relations campaigns, it's done by competence in controlling the outbreak.

The idiots like the aging Harley riders meeting in Sturgis weren't just rolling the dice for themselves, they were weighting the dice for all the other folk they'll be meeting with over the next few weeks. The more I head of stunts like that, the less likely I am to head out to the shops and the bars like I used to.

The ridiculous thing in all this is that if only the Trump administration had exhibited the slightest bit of competence in dealing with Covid then at this point he'd be cruising to victory in the coming elections.
 
Durham Strike 1:

Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith will plead guilty to making a false statement in the first criminal case arising from U.S. Attorney John Durham's review of the investigation into links between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign, two sources close to the matter tell Fox News.

Read the charging document from the Justice Department below:








It's what Trump said from the beginning, Illegal spying by the St barry of Obama Administration enabled by lying to get warrants to spy on a duly elected President, and this is just the beginning. Pay attention to the names...





And now the world's largest police force, NYPD has endorsed Trump with more likely to follow.
I hope the left learn a hard lesson about this destructive scorched earth policy and have a hard think about who they allow imbibing their "unhinged conspiracy theories".

Meh. Don’t get too excited. Here’s are more considered view.

 

ipso_facto

War Hero
Durham Strike 1:

Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith will plead guilty to making a false statement in the first criminal case arising from U.S. Attorney John Durham's review of the investigation into links between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign, two sources close to the matter tell Fox News.

I wonder how many people and who he has thrown under the bus to make his plea deal? This is the beginning of the domino effect.

It's very clever of The President to give almost daily news briefings. Because he can't do rallies he keeps the media on topic and focussed on his agenda for America and shows up Biden who doesn't take questions.

Do you think POTUS answered the Q question here? I think he did.

 
We will not lock down again here, we will take our chances. I have been living the Rona life since the lockdown started in March and ended in May. I still go out in public and to the office and the only place I wear a mask if I remember to bring the thing is Walmart.

But this is what we do!

Well, taking life lessons from a brain damaged sub human cartoon character is very good training for voting for Trump.
 

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