• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

The Tonight Programme on ITV1 (30/10/06) - Opinions please?

Do you think that post-ops medical care is acceptable?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More could be done

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
What a shocking programme. Unfortuantly its a reality, and its highlighting the problems that really affect sqaddies.

Seems like someone in the MOD wasn't happy. The programme mentioned MOD has banned ITV crews from reporting with UK forces.

Anyone got any thoughts?
 
#2
Im surprised its taken this long for the media to cotton on, those working in the DMS have known for years that we are not fit for purpose
 
#3
Missed the first ten minutes but it seemed to me more to do with the MOD banning ITV news from reporting than the soldiers themselves.But it was interesting that ITV pointed out that the 3Para soldier who sadly lost a leg,is keeping his job in the Army.The 'implication' I got from reading between the lines was that if he commended the care he had from Selly Oak,he'd get a buy ball & stay in the army.I can see no other reason for ITV to mention that as I'm sure there are far more injured servicemen who have been kept on.(IE,Johnston Beharry VC,told he was too badly injured to stay in but now promted to Lcpl)
Now I'm sure that's not the case & that he is being kept on on his merits,but I wonder how many,especially civvies,will wonder that too.
 
#4
The MOD is never happy when it has been caught out. No denials or speeches over this just a straight 'you're not playing with us anymore' like some sulking four year old. ITN has hit a raw nerve with the MOD and it knows it can’t win a media battle with ITN wheeling out injured guys left right and centre all sing the same song.
Every soldier and his dog knows the medical care we get is not a patch on anything other NATO countries get, but since when has a politician given a flying f**k about any of us? Injured soldiers are just an embarrassment to the government as it indicates that all may not be quite as rosy as they would have Joe Public believe!
 
#5
As with all medical care some people will be happy with their treatment and others will not. I can't see how a military ward will help other than assist those with serious injuries on their inital return from theatre. In order that our soldiers continue to recieve the high quality of care they get in theatre then our clinicians need to be able to practice in all disciplines of medicine. ITN has been banned from what MOD see as intrusive reporting on injured soldiers returning from theatre. Quite right too, we have a duty of care to insure that bloody microphones are not shoved under the nose of injured servicemen/women just so someone can get TV rateings. :?
 
#6
CRF477 said:
As with all medical care some people will be happy with their treatment and others will not. I can't see how a military ward will help other than assist those with serious injuries on their inital return from theatre. In order that our soldiers continue to recieve the high quality of care they get in theatre then our clinicians need to be able to practice in all disciplines of medicine. ITN has been banned from what MOD see as intrusive reporting on injured soldiers returning from theatre. Quite right too, we have a duty of care to insure that bloody microphones are not shoved under the nose of injured servicemen/women just so someone can get TV rateings. :?
And which part of the MOD press office do you hail from?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but yours just shows two things
1. You are not nor have been a soldier
2. You've never been injured or had any experience of NHS waiting lists as a serviceman!
 
#7
1. Served 18 years within RAMC.
2. Managed over 600 soldiers as a practice manager.

You can take the the reported side of the press if you like.
 
#8
Just watched ITV News 'Tonight'

Some thoughts:

1. All the guys with major problems were ‘lost’ in the NHS system after being discharged from hospital, or diagnosed requiring out-patient treatment, or care through primary care trusts. Some were even worse, because they were also PTSD sufferers, but had not been appropriately diagnosed by Army doctors in the first instance.

2. Many of these guys were TA (part-timers, volunteers for a 6-month tour), or were from logisitic units: that is were not trained for ‘front-line’ combat in the first place, but were involved in a conflict without front lines: so, arguably, a greater shock to their system. More important, it means that they do not belong to a close-knit Regimental clan, which will bust a gut to look after them when they are in trouble. This might not sound very clear, because most outsiders don’t see the detail of the tribal communities, and their massively differing HR processes that make up the the sub-communities of what is erroneously perceived as a single monolithic entity. This is very important where PTSD treatment is concerned.

3. The MoD response to the criticism levelled by ITV was to roll out a member of 3 Para (one of the most clannish and loyal little families in the Army) who had been treated excellently BUT HAD NOT YET BEEN RELEASED FROM IN-PATIENT CARE IN A HOSPITAL: :? :?

But the ITV team didn’t pick that up :? :?

O - and why did they show all the septics???
 
#9
If you think that is bad, then look at the quality of "routine" medical care given to soldiers not injured in battle! It is a step further down from Selly Oak.

Can any one tell me why I have to make a 3 hour round trip to frimley park to see physio and other "specialists"? I must drive past at least 5 major hospitals enroute.

Can anyone tell me why it took me 5 years to get a routine operation? Im sure that even the NHS in this case would have got round to it quicker!

And when you do finally get your operation, why is it done as an outpatients appointment? Then your nearest and dearest has to take time off work to care for you?
 
#10
I have recently returned from Afghanistan and provided medical support there. I have been told on numerous occasions by members of 3 PARA BG that they greatly appreciated the care provided in Theatre and in transit back to the UK. I have yet to speak to any individuals that i sent back from Afghanistan with regard to the care they received on return to UK.

I have however, experience of the clinical care provided by RCDM, DMSRC (Headley Court) and Selly Oak hospital, which in my view, is first rate. The problem is not in the delivery of medical care per se but in the management and administration of military patients. This is where we currently fail our wounded and injured.

The pastoral support of the wounded soldier, the ability to recover and share experiences with like-minded individuals is almost as important as the actual physical healing process and the delivery of clinical care. Therefore where possible, we should group military patients together. They need robust management whilst recovering, so ensure that military personnel attend to their clinical needs (so far as possible) and in particular, their administration (in the military sense of the word). So AGC clerks and their other Service counterparts visit the wards to resolve pay, allowances and entitlements queries and problems and ensure that wounded and injured personnel are tracked and managed on discharge from the NHS. Key in this is improving the linkage and reporting requirements between the individual soldier, his parent unit and the Y list.

Additionally, as we send our patients to 'Centres of Excellence', often far away from military garrisons and families, we need to make special and more comprehensive arrangements for accommodating, hosting and when necessary funding the visits of relatives.

If we can get these aspects right, I think we will address what has hitherto been the cause of so much angst and controversy.
 
#11
To be honest, I went through the military health system after a serious injury to my forearm (severed nerve and artery) in which I lost the feeling to my right hand. The treatment I received at a specialist nerve injury hospital (downt the road from MarionStrasse at Hanover) was absolute first class was in having the Op the same day then transferred to Headley Court to receive Rehab. Headley Court was also first class as well. I cannot complain one bit about the military health system it was fantastic I can only complain about my unit not listening to the specialists. However my hand is on the mend was initially told I would never have the feeling back but due to the top class treatment I had it is 95% there with still loads of recovery to go!!
 
#13
Lordfelcher if you had to go to CMH when it was open your journey would have been longer and the clinical staff may not have had the clinical experience their NHS counterparts have to treat your complaint. There are plenty of horror stories out there.
As I said before some people will be happy with their treatment others will not.
It's McDonalds fault. Because you can get a burger fries and a milkshake in under two minutes. People think you can rebuild a knee or a mind at the same speed.
Nobody in the medical services believe that the current situation is perfect. Far from it. However the whole of the defence budget cannot be spent on medical care. Things must change, but not just because the press has decided this is a good story.
Alot of this comes down to the individual. I know of cases where individuals have been treated privately.
Anyone serving in a Bn or Regt in which it's soldiers are not routinely posted every 2/3 years will always recieve better medical care due to continuity of treatment. ie you know where the person is and how to get a hold of them. They know where to go to get help.
See point 2 Stoker.
 
#15
spike7451 said:
Missed the first ten minutes but it seemed to me more to do with the MOD banning ITV news from reporting than the soldiers themselves.But it was interesting that ITV pointed out that the 3Para soldier who sadly lost a leg,is keeping his job in the Army.The 'implication' I got from reading between the lines was that if he commended the care he had from Selly Oak,he'd get a buy ball & stay in the army.I can see no other reason for ITV to mention that as I'm sure there are far more injured servicemen who have been kept on.(IE,Johnston Beharry VC,told he was too badly injured to stay in but now promted to Lcpl)
Now I'm sure that's not the case & that he is being kept on on his merits,but I wonder how many,especially civvies,will wonder that too.
In the last few years I have heard of a sailor and a Royal Marine officer who both lost legs (not, I beleive in combat) who were both allowed to stay. The sailor was a star (though I am sure both are), and the PTIs used to use him to hurry up the stragglers on the 1.5 mile run. If he could do it then it was embarresing if they couldn't!
 
#16
Whilst at Headley Court I met a guy there that had his leg blown off in Iraq and had recently received a prosthetic leg and could still do a BPFA in under 10.30!!
 
#17
CRF477 said:
Lordfelcher if you had to go to CMH when it was open your journey would have been longer and the clinical staff may not have had the clinical experience their NHS counterparts have to treat your complaint. There are plenty of horror stories out there.
As I said before some people will be happy with their treatment others will not.
It's McDonalds fault. Because you can get a burger fries and a milkshake in under two minutes. People think you can rebuild a knee or a mind at the same speed.
Nobody in the medical services believe that the current situation is perfect. Far from it. However the whole of the defence budget cannot be spent on medical care. Things must change, but not just because the press has decided this is a good story.
Alot of this comes down to the individual. I know of cases where individuals have been treated privately.
Anyone serving in a Bn or Regt in which it's soldiers are not routinely posted every 2/3 years will always recieve better medical care due to continuity of treatment. ie you know where the person is and how to get a hold of them. They know where to go to get help.
See point 2 Stoker.
1. My missus works in a Walk-in centre: tw4ts with serious injuries go there to avoid the queues at A+E. (They limp there from A+E, sometimes, only to be told to go back!!) - so McDonalds syndrome - with you all the way.

2. The big MISS in tonight's programme was that they did not clearly distinguish between THE DAMAGED IN HOSPITALS (which doesn't look too bad except on the security front - see this thread ), and the poor b'stards UNCARED FOR IN OUTPATIENT HELL: esp. those Whose MENTAL TRAUMA WAS DENIED BY UNDER EXPERIENCED MILITARY DOCTORS :x :x :x :x :x :x (forgive use of Scum-type headlines) - none of which were clearly identified by Sir Trevor as major problems: idle kn*bber.

3. CRF477 - Its StoNker - not some obscure 19thCentury naval rating, thank you very much . . . :D
 
#18
I hope the 3 para soldier well and that Mr McDonut interiews Cpl P in a years time. Just to make sure the MOD still look after him. I know I and others will be watching that space :wink:
 
#19
Admittedly also missed the first ten minutes and fully agree with Neanderthal and CRF 477. I am serving and have a bro also serving he was misdiagnosed and this has let to a relatively minor injury becoming a major issue with RBL and private doc involved. That said when I needed an Op, they could not move fast enough.

One thing that came out last night which I did not think was explored was the way the NHS appear to be failing injured guys. Apologies if I am making a flase distinction, but if they are signed over to NHS care after Mil treatment, it appeared from the programme at least that the NHS were not recognising the nature and circumstances of the injuries and not prioritising their treatment.
 
#20
The telling element for me of the interview with the 3 Para soldier was that (although he did admittedly praise the MoD) his most effusive praise was for his Bn. As mentioned above, for TA/CSS soldiers, this unit support may simply not be available, and all you get is a queue at A&E. This is a main area of weakness.
 

Latest Threads

Top