The Times: Cambridge college named after Churchill to debate his ‘backward’ views on race

Churchill had very difficult views concerning race but that does not mean he was a great man. Great but flawed as all such men are.

He had perfectly normal views for the times in which he lived.

Trying to judge those views by today's standards infantilises history and our understanding of the past.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
He had perfectly normal views for the times in which he lived.

Trying to judge those views by today's standards infantilises history and our understanding of the past.

Studying people's views is part and parcel of history, we need to understand their possible motivations, views and understanding of how they lived and acted in the times and events they lived through.

Infantilising history occurs when you ignore or choose to ignore possibly unsavoury aspects or actions of people's character and actions because it makes you uncomfortable.

History is the constant re-engagement with the past in light of new information and approaches. In doing so we build a greater understanding of our subjects.
 
Studying people's views is part and parcel of history, we need to understand their possible motivations, views and understanding of how they lived and acted in the times and events they lived through.

Infantilising history occurs when you ignore or choose to ignore possibly unsavoury aspects or actions of people's character and actions because it makes you uncomfortable.

History is the constant re-engagement with the past in light of new information and approaches. In doing so we build a greater understanding of our subjects.

Quite frankly, that is complete nonsense.

It's like condemning last summer for not being cold because you had to wear a coat today.
 
Studying people's views is part and parcel of history, we need to understand their possible motivations, views and understanding of how they lived and acted in the times and events they lived through.

Infantilising history occurs when you ignore or choose to ignore possibly unsavoury aspects or actions of people's character and actions because it makes you uncomfortable.

History is the constant re-engagement with the past in light of new information and approaches. In doing so we build a greater understanding of our subjects.


I'm obliged to disagree, there's no problem revising history according to new sources from the time, but it's utterly ridiculous to hold people of the past to the standards of today. We have ways of thinking about things now that they wouldn't even have been aware of, so how on earth can they meet our expectations of the 21st C?

This is part and parcel of the PC agenda I was referring to back in 2017, it's post modernist crap to try and insert identity politics into history. The Churchill debate and Leicester are just two aspects of a far larger problem of re-writing history for the woke generation.
 
As for the University of Leicester ditching the Classics, this was a decision by senior management to ditch it because they don't want to fund it and dressed their excuse up as "decolonisation", they used race relations as an excuse for being miserly, tight bastards according to those I've spoken to in academia.

In essence, the bigwigs have noticed that there's been a drop in demand in these subjects (i.e. less fee income), and have operated on a 'know the cost of everything and the value of nothing' basis.

Suggestions that the money saved by binning the departments (or the modules and thus those who teach them) was going to be used to fund 'decolonised' topics weren't discouraged (any links are now being denied). Unfortunately, this led to multiple academics, including a number of those involved in 'decolonisation' initiatives to condemn the decision.

Don't be surprised if reports appear suggesting that demand for the subjects at risk have increased and the need to consider dropping them is no longer a priority. In the background - and reported only in the Times Higher Education Supplement and the Guardian - a recruitment freeze will be imposed on the departments and more work will be parcelled out to teaching assistants who will seek full time employment elsewhere...
 




 
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I'm obliged to disagree, there's no problem revising history according to new sources from the time, but it's utterly ridiculous to hold people of the past to the standards of today. We have ways of thinking about things now that they wouldn't even have been aware of, so how on earth can they meet our expectations of the 21st C?

This is part and parcel of the PC agenda I was referring to back in 2017, it's post modernist crap to try and insert identity politics into history. The Churchill debate and Leicester are just two aspects of a far larger problem of re-writing history for the woke generation.

"On the sixth day of Hate Week, after the processions, the speeches, the shouting, the singing, the banners, the posters, the films, the waxworks, the rolling of drums and squealing of trumpets, the tramp of marching feet, the grinding of the caterpillars of tanks, the roar of massed planes, the booming of guns—after six days of this, when the great orgasm was quivering to its climax and the general hatred of Eurasia had boiled up into such delirium that if the crowd could have got their hands on the 2,000 Eurasian war-criminals who were to be publicly hanged on the last day of the proceedings, they would unquestionably have torn them to pieces—at just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally.

There was, of course, no admission that any change had taken place. Merely it became known, with extreme suddenness and everywhere at once, that Eastasia and not Eurasia was the enemy."
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
In essence, the bigwigs have noticed that there's been a drop in demand in these subjects (i.e. less fee income), and have operated on a 'know the cost of everything and the value of nothing' basis.

Suggestions that the money saved by binning the departments (or the modules and thus those who teach them) was going to be used to fund 'decolonised' topics weren't discouraged (any links are now being denied). Unfortunately, this led to multiple academics, including a number of those involved in 'decolonisation' initiatives to condemn the decision.

Don't be surprised if reports appear suggesting that demand for the subjects at risk have increased and the need to consider dropping them is no longer a priority. In the background - and reported only in the Times Higher Education Supplement and the Guardian - a recruitment freeze will be imposed on the departments and more work will be parcelled out to teaching assistants who will seek full time employment elsewhere...

Exactly
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer





Padilla's is not setting out to destroy the Classics as a subject, but rather looking to change the way it is taught, to open scholarship and traching to the far more complex and nuanced.

The RHUL is not removing books but diversifying and expanding its resources to inculde more literature and studies in the fields of sex, gender and race, that's not book burning, it's expanding history and education.

This other piece in the Tab reveals a more nuanced and mature approach to RHU's past through the prism of a statue of Queen Victoria


France is having yet another spasm in a long history of spasm about American Cultural Imperialism, it's decidedly amusing when you think that the American Right has being having fits for generations over French Philosophical Influences on the humanities.

The IPA is a reactionary think tank that has shilled for the tobacco industry, by writing reports that denying links between passive smoking and health, enduged in climate change denial and tried to overturn Equality Legislation. Take their claims to be exagerated in the extreme.

With GSU, I haven't read their curriculum, but they've object to Dunahoo trying to shut down academic freedom


But seeing as the university stood up for a student who gave, a presentation on the conspiratorial racist nonsense that is The Replacement Theory as "fall[ing] within his free speech rights. I wouldn't worry too much


Speaking of book burning there was one at GSU, White students burning the book of a minority author who gave a presentation on it


The University defended the students right to do that too
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I'm obliged to disagree, there's no problem revising history according to new sources from the time, but it's utterly ridiculous to hold people of the past to the standards of today. We have ways of thinking about things now that they wouldn't even have been aware of, so how on earth can they meet our expectations of the 21st C?

This is part and parcel of the PC agenda I was referring to back in 2017, it's post modernist crap to try and insert identity politics into history. The Churchill debate and Leicester are just two aspects of a far larger problem of re-writing history for the woke generation.

Claptrap, it's the expansion of history itself, racism is still exists whether you apply a moral or objective analysis upon it.

You can desscribe the institution of Slavery as both objectively and morally racist. Objectively because that is how it was articulated, that blacks should be be slaves because they are inferior, the moral judgement comes after and is not part and parcel of the writing of that history. It sits alongside it as part of the society that it is written in, it should be remembered that these subjects were sources of extreme moral and political division in their own right in the times in which they existed.

The Impeachemnt of Warren Hastings was an examination and defence of the percieved evils and actions of Imperialism in India at the time they were occuring in the late 18th Century.

Abolitionism (slavery) has existed since the early 18th Century and was a part of the active politcal debates during the pre Revolutionary colonistaion of the Americas.

Robert Clive was vilified by his contemporaries, not lauded.
 

Johned

Old-Salt
Still a few of us extant who can remember celebrating "Empire Day" at school. Our teacher an ex WW1 Captain proudly pointed at the world map on the classroom wall and stated "Everything on that map painted red belongs to us!" In hindsight, the fact that the Japs had what turned out to be thankfully temporary possession of much of the same, seems to have been lost on that respected figure! As for Winston, of course he had his faults and made mistakes, he was human but who else was there who could have done his job? The patrician Lord Halifax who the Conservatives really wanted? Hardly! At the end of the day WSC was an elected MP and he never forgot the fact and as combined PM and Minister of War, he regularly reported to the House of Commons. As an aside, my dad a working class ex Regular and between the wars and after WW2 a factory worker always averred WSC and Lloyd George were the finest Englishmen who ever lived! LG was Welsh and a bit of a fixer however so dear old dad was perhaps a little off beam there. My mother, a hardened Tory, never could quite approve of WSC crossing the benches from the Liberals to the Cons and if he spoke on the radio during hositilities she would yell at me "You can switch that strikebreaker off!" Again, she was wrong. When as Home Secretary he despatched the Guards to deal with striking S.Wales miners, he relented and stopped their train at Didcot! Forgive the ramblings of an old fool dear readers but I am sensitive about WSC and would like his reputation to remain intact. As a lad who lived through the "last lot" I remember it well and thank God I lived in a small town and not the bombed out hell of the big cities.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Studying people's views is part and parcel of history, we need to understand their possible motivations, views and understanding of how they lived and acted in the times and events they lived through.

Infantilising history occurs when you ignore or choose to ignore possibly unsavoury aspects or actions of people's character and actions because it makes you uncomfortable.

History is the constant re-engagement with the past in light of new information and approaches. In doing so we build a greater understanding of our subjects.
Most first phase history captures the essential truth.

The second wave makes a living from identifying the faults in the first phase assessment.

Everything else ends up on Discovery or the History Channel being presented by a moron.
 

anglo

LE
Still a few of us extant who can remember celebrating "Empire Day" at school. Our teacher an ex WW1 Captain proudly pointed at the world map on the classroom wall and stated "Everything on that map painted red belongs to us!" In hindsight, the fact that the Japs had what turned out to be thankfully temporary possession of much of the same, seems to have been lost on that respected figure! As for Winston, of course he had his faults and made mistakes, he was human but who else was there who could have done his job? The patrician Lord Halifax who the Conservatives really wanted? Hardly! At the end of the day WSC was an elected MP and he never forgot the fact and as combined PM and Minister of War, he regularly reported to the House of Commons. As an aside, my dad a working class ex Regular and between the wars and after WW2 a factory worker always averred WSC and Lloyd George were the finest Englishmen who ever lived! LG was Welsh and a bit of a fixer however so dear old dad was perhaps a little off beam there. My mother, a hardened Tory, never could quite approve of WSC crossing the benches from the Liberals to the Cons and if he spoke on the radio during hositilities she would yell at me "You can switch that strikebreaker off!" Again, she was wrong. When as Home Secretary he despatched the Guards to deal with striking S.Wales miners, he relented and stopped their train at Didcot! Forgive the ramblings of an old fool dear readers but I am sensitive about WSC and would like his reputation to remain intact. As a lad who lived through the "last lot" I remember it well and thank God I lived in a small town and not the bombed out hell of the big cities.
Last Empire Day was in 1958,
 
Herr Hitler must be pissing himself with laughter in whatever corner of hell he resides in.
 

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