The thin line between banter and harassment.

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Your views belong in the past.

You're a bit of a racist, judging by what I've seen of your posts.

I'm not discussing the boots of the men you knew, either. Just pointing out that your views belong in the past.
show one racial comment that I have made, then phuck off! when you get there phuck off again, right out of sight!
 

windswept398

Old-Salt
There's only so much piss taking anyone can take before breaking down mentally.....no matter where.

It's a bit of fun initially, of course, but having to deal with it day in and day out, you say f-k them. That's not "banter," that really is harassment.

Good luck trying to do that in the modern work place.
Agreed.
But you should have the moral courage to grip anyone that crosses the line. I've gripped people. It's worked.
Guy in my office was such a tool up until three days ago. Now it's all 'mate this' and 'mate that'.

Little bitch.
 
Any physical characteristic that is outside the norm has always been the subject of banter and good natured ribbing in the forces. The reason why skin colour should be dealt with any differently than say huge ears or a massive nose escapes me. Coloured peoples' rights are protected by law, and have been for nearly fifty years so they are not disadvantaged in society to any measurable degree; the slave trade ended two hundred years ago and Britain played a major part in ensuring it stayed that way, so history is not a reason either.

These coloured people are, and have been for a very long time, protected and valued members of our society, which is why I consider complaints that specify a whole unit was racist to an individual probably spurious, and most likely fuelled to some extent by the possibility of substantial compensation.

Especially when the individual concerned waited until his thirty year career was over before he complained about it.

For which he will be getting a good pension, and a one off lump sum payment, tax free.
 
show one racial comment that I have made, then phuck off! when you get there phuck off again, right out of sight!
Its just an impression I've formed.

Interesting hysterical reaction from you given your whining about other people in this comment:

If he didn't have the moral courage and strength to put up with banter and piss taking from his mates, then where did he get the moral strength to become a Company Colour Sergeant? Some of the strongest characters that I knew in the army held that rank.
Guess that you don't have moral courage and strength to put up with banter, criticism an piss taking, eh?
 
You Bravo are not fit to lick the boots of the men that I knew, so please don't lower the tone to discuss them!
It seems many posting here think that banter (aka harassment) is OK and that it hardens the recipients. No it doesn't: it's bullying and has no place in the Forces these days.

I, too, remember the 1980s and would not in any way want to return to the misogynist, homophobic and racist past. And yes, psyches can change - and do. Otherwise marketing wouldn't work. .
 

Awol

LE
It's called human decency and moving forward - progress - you know? The way we moved forward from slavery, women rights, to gay marriage etc etc. Have a bloody open mind.
I would suggest that there is no ingrained racism in the army. There are thousands of posts on Arrse that state that 'we never judged XYZ by his colour, he worked hard and was a bloody decent bloke'. Of course there is going to be the occasional racist, but for this bloke to suggest that his whole unit was institutionally racist for his whole thirty years doesn't ring true.
 
I would suggest that there is no ingrained racism in the army. There are thousands of posts on Arrse that state that 'we never judged XYZ by his colour, he worked hard and was a bloody decent bloke'. Of course there is going to be the occasional racist, but for this bloke to suggest that his whole unit was institutionally racist for his whole thirty years doesn't ring true.
Over recent years the Courts have begged to differ.
 
I would suggest that there is no ingrained racism in the army. There are thousands of posts on Arrse that state that 'we never judged XYZ by his colour, he worked hard and was a bloody decent bloke'. Of course there is going to be the occasional racist, but for this bloke to suggest that his whole unit was institutionally racist for his whole thirty years doesn't ring true.
i don't think there is inherent racism TBH - but a bloke gets worn down after constant pranking day in and day out- there's only so much "fun" you can endure.
 

Awol

LE
i don't think there is inherent racism TBH - but a bloke gets worn down after constant pranking day in and day out- there's only so much "fun" you can endure.
I agree, but it's a lot easier to demand they stop it (with the support of the C of C if necessary) than launch a major claim for compensation after the fact.
 
Over recent years the Courts have begged to differ.
Thats because its generally weighted in the complainants favour. Soldiers have banter and then sometime down the line the complainant brings up the exact words used against him/her while everyone else has forgotten the exact words he said first or back.
 
I would suggest that there is no ingrained racism in the army. There are thousands of posts on Arrse that state that 'we never judged XYZ by his colour, he worked hard and was a bloody decent bloke'. Of course there is going to be the occasional racist, but for this bloke to suggest that his whole unit was institutionally racist for his whole thirty years doesn't ring true.
It probably started as a 'few' people but after discussing it with a lawyer it's easy to escalate the issue to the whole unit.
"How many people was it?"
"Dunno, about 10"
"Could it have been more?"
"I suppose so"
"Was it the same people, or different each time?"
"Could be different people, it depends on who I was with"
"Aaaaah, So we can justifiably claim the whole unit was involved then?"
"I suppose it was"
Bingo!
 

ancient

War Hero
In this day and age you're never going to get away with engaging in behaviour that could be deemed as harassment or bullying.

I joined the Army in 1987 and I cringe now when I look back at some of the stuff that went on. I remember we were often summoned into the office by our troop staff by having your name screamed loudly down the corridor but the one solitary black recruit in my intake never was... they'd summon him out of his room by banging on the bottom of the metal waste paper bin like the jungle drums.

To his credit he took it all in the good humour which I'd hope it was intended.

If that happened today he'd be getting a massive payout and the DS would lose their jobs.
We had no black lads in my unit in the 80's but we did have one in the attached LAD.

He volunteered to be sat under the bucket of water thing on some family day, where kids could throw sponges and tip the see saw thing so that the volunteer got soaked.

All good fun.

But the cringe bit is when the Staff Corporal said something on the lines of "I don't know why he bothers: it'll never wash off."

General laughter all round. Just some banter, not harassment . Bit of a giggle.

I'm ashamed of it now.
 
We had no black lads in my unit in the 80's but we did have one in the attached LAD.

He volunteered to be sat under the bucket of water thing on some family day, where kids could throw sponges and tip the see saw thing so that the volunteer got soaked.

All good fun.

But the cringe bit is when the Staff Corporal said something on the lines of "I don't know why he bothers: it'll never wash off."

General laughter all round. Just some banter, not harassment . Bit of a giggle.

I'm ashamed of it now.
Because you never thought of the gag first?
 

windswept398

Old-Salt
I would suggest that there is no ingrained racism in the army. There are thousands of posts on Arrse that state that 'we never judged XYZ by his colour, he worked hard and was a bloody decent bloke'. Of course there is going to be the occasional racist, but for this bloke to suggest that his whole unit was institutionally racist for his whole thirty years doesn't ring true.
Met a few racists in the army in my time. They are there.
 
Thats because its generally weighted in the complainants favour. Soldiers have banter and then sometime down the line the complainant brings up the exact words used against him/her while everyone else has forgotten the exact words he said first or back.
The truth is banter changes to something else, when the comedians joke hits home enough, that others start to imitate the abuse. But, as you say, the thin line really is is a two way street.... In my 40+ years, the lessons I have learned are:-
1. people lie and especially to themselves.
2. banter that crosses the line is very clear to all.
3. That which bestrides this line, is because those aggrieved were likely as not doling it out themselves, not long before.

I note bravo2's zero tolerance, which is very noble, but he himself enjoys poking people with sticks and is hardly a noble representative of tolerance.
 
Met a few racists in the army in my time. They are there.

Unfortunately they are every where, in the mob, some hide behind their rank, I bumped into a few.

Memory jog: - Field exercise in BAOR, early hours of the morning, in a pitch black, Teutonic forest, one lad who had been on the receiving end of some nasty put downs, vindictive banter, and continual verbal diarrhoea, from a NCO, waited behind a tree, as the NCO emerged from the back of a radio wagon, and walked towards him, a rifle butt connected with his face, all in the pitch blackness. The hierarchy never found out who it was, but we knew, and why.
 
Truth is that- as with all of human endeavour- some people are “better” at banter than others. Quicker, funnier, louder, more charismatic. “Better”.
Banter can easily be a euphemism for bullying- only the victim is under pressure to laugh along and come back with some weak riposte of their own, which will probably be used as the basis of, and to justify and excuse, the continuance of more “banter”
Banter is okay when it’s on equal terms but it often isn’t. I would encourage anyone who has had enough of it to punch the banterer-in-chief full in the face. Shouting “B-A-N-T-E-R” as they so do.
 

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