The smearing of General Dannatt

#2
Dangerous ploy to take.

Likely to rebound to put MP's expenses back on the agenda.

Running scared - and those that would smear General Dannatt's reputation in this way, are likely to see their own affairs under further scrutiny.

Either way, I would assume that General Dannatt's expenses were "within the rules?"
 
#3
Interestingly, to me anyway, is that a 'minister' is reported to be very much involved. The ministers are:

RAMMELL; DRAYSON; DAVIES (Turn-coat); TAYLOR; JONES.

I know who I would bet on. No names no pack-drill, but he or she is a well known 'class warrior' and scourge of senior officers' tennis courts!

PS: Why do we have almost as many 'ministers' as we have battalions?
 

Auld-Yin

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#4
Can I supply a note of caution. This is reported in the Scum. It is not below them to have put in the FoI request themselves, asked a Minister what they thought of it and used them as the 'source'. The Scum are just that and are probably just story-hunting.

Unless Gen D had been ordering one-legged Bosnian lesbian hookers (which I very much doubt as MDN has that market cornered) then I doubt there will be much that can be found against him.

MPs would not know what the words 'honesty' and 'integrity' were even if they bit them on the bum!
 

Mr Happy

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#5
More importantly (as I believe this will come to nothing and Labour can't be that stupid as to want revenge....) is that what is the next government going to do to prevent this happening in the future?

Politicians appointing CGS and CDS strikes me as wrong (let alone Congress appointing Generals in the US!). What does a UK government know about the military? Sod all. Therefore I'd like to see the next (Tory) government make the military as 'independent and non-political' as Brown successfully did with the Bank of England.
 
#6
Fair point Auld-Yin.

Although other newsrooms have been following developments in relation to the possible smearing of General Dannatt by Ministers.

First Minister to put head above the mantle is likely to take a lot of incoming.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
Which one of them called him a b@stard though? I bet whoever that is has a whole wall-length, built-in wardrobe full of sh!t they'd like to keep private.
 
#8
ABrighter2006 said:
First Minister to put head above the mantle is likely to take a lot of incoming.
Shouts of " ooo, Look pretty lights that look like they are flying towards me" dripping out of their fatuous maws.

Not one Zanu NuArbeit Minister is fit to hold office. The fact they are (unsuccessfully) again trying to smear the Generals good name is further proof that they are a party without honesty,integrity or common decency.

Come the revolution..... :evil:
 
#9
How much did Dannert cost the tax payer in the last year I bet it wasn't £773,993 the cost of the house of commons divided by 646 the number of MPs
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Didn't Kevan(?) Jones try this a year or two ago
I seem to remember that he was banging on about the top brass having a cook, driver ,steward etc
Of course that was before there own expenses were revealed

I can only think that some minister who has no chance of being re elected will do Gordon and Peters bidding with the promise of a peerage if it comes off

I'll be interested to see whose first because the backlash will be hard even for Labour to control
 
#11
Auld-Yin said:
Can I supply a note of caution. This is reported in the Scum. It is not below them to have put in the FoI request themselves, asked a Minister what they thought of it and used them as the 'source'. The Scum are just that and are probably just story-hunting.

Unless Gen D had been ordering one-legged Bosnian lesbian hookers (which I very much doubt as MDN has that market cornered) then I doubt there will be much that can be found against him.

MPs would not know what the words 'honesty' and 'integrity' were even if they bit them on the bum!
Very true A-Y, the fact that no-one specific was mentioned, it does smell fishy.

If there was a real story then they would have 'outed' the minister and sat back and watched the show.

BTW there's no current outstanding FOI request for Sir Richard Dannatt, so the following questions have to be asked:

If the FOI request's not in the public domain, who really did request it?

Why would a minister/MP request it and then leak it knowing it could embarrass the government?
 
#12
Mr Happy said:
More importantly (as I believe this will come to nothing and Labour can't be that stupid as to want revenge....) is that what is the next government going to do to prevent this happening in the future?

Politicians appointing CGS and CDS strikes me as wrong (let alone Congress appointing Generals in the US!). What does a UK government know about the military? Sod all. Therefore I'd like to see the next (Tory) government make the military as 'independent and non-political' as Brown successfully did with the Bank of England.
The Services are there to carry out the will of the people as directed by Government. By our very nature we cannot be independent and shouldn't be. In times of relative peace (ie not total war) those officers who get to the very top realise that to get there they must be in tune with the government of the day and have the outlook that most appeals to the Government. Stubborn, independent men of action are great for all out warfare but those that have to negotiate budgets etc with the Government have to have a lot of diplomacy and political savvy. Sometimes it's more about getting the best you can than necessarily everything you need, an officer in step with the Government is more likely to achieve that.
All that having been said please don't think that I feel that anything less than the very best of everything is good enough for our troops but I do see that there has to be pragmatism and compromise in order to achieve the best that can be achieved.
 
#13
Some posters seem to think the General has something to worry about. If he’s done nothing wrong nothing will be found, end of.

The MOD has been identified as a department that spends thousands of pounds on entertaining???????????? MPs and other large businesses but that cannot be put down to the good General.
 
#14
I agree that his could well be a journo plant.

The two FOI requests are 10-06-2009-144241-004 and-005, asking for details of the Agency heads (004) and CDS, 1SL, CGS and CAS (005), both submitted on 6 Jul 09.

However (not that I'm for a second suggesting it is he, you understand) Kevan Jones has form on this:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070524/text/70524w0003.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ish-600-000-servants-troops-live-squalor.html

He also has form with Dannatt:

http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/07/kevan-jones-has-history-with-sir.html

All a bit rich from a man who maxed out his ACA and still had to pay back architect's fees. Credit where credit's due, at least it was only £172 and he only spent £33 on cleaning.
 
#15
elovabloke said:
Some posters seem to think the General has something to worry about. If he’s done nothing wrong nothing will be found, end of.

The MOD has been identified as a department that spends thousands of pounds on entertaining???????????? MPs and other large businesses but that cannot be put down to the good General.
Senior officers must have an enormous amount of official entertaining to do. Wining and dining greases the wheels of any organisation and is how it 'sells' itself to other organisations. If you get some major British event who do you think takes a lot of the burden of hosting visiting Military dignitaries? If he has a big entertainment bill then it is testimony to the amount of work he has to do and let us not forget that it is at London rates as well.
I'm sure the amounts will seem large but that doesn't mean that they are frivolous or fraudulent or that there is any suggestion that anything was for General Dannatt's personal benefit.
 
#16
Markintime said:
I'm sure the amounts will seem large but that doesn't mean that they are frivolous or fraudulent or that there is any suggestion that anything was for General Dannatt's personal benefit.
I would never suggest that they were fraudulent, frivolous yes, fraudulent never. As the customer I would suggest it's more the other side role to be frivolous. As to MP's getting wined and dined it would work out cheaper to take them back to their cut-price subsidised eateries in the commons.

Anyway, back on thread.
 
#17
The General whom Jones waged a particular vendetta against in 2006 was the then AG. Chippy devil could not understand why senior officers needed accomodation or a hospitality budget.

The other piece of the puzzle out there is that M'Lord Foulkes has apparently tabled a number of parliamentary questions about CGS' use of helos, etc, in the UK. Clearly all his fault that there aren't enough SH in theatre given his occasional use of a Gazelle to visit far-flung establishments...
 
#18
He, and the rest of the Service Chiefs, could box quite clever on this: all of them publish their expenses, conduct a press briefing explaining exactly what and where they were for 'major items', and show the public exactly how hard they are working. It's elegant, it contrasts well with the House of Commons innate desire to cover things up, and it provides a positive message that it is not only our squaddies doing the hard work.

'I've on doubt one or two papers might try to cause a fuss about something, but on the whole it would only be truly positive. OTOH, if we drag our feet, redact stuff and act like the politicians, then we may well bring the same shit storm on ourselves.....
 
#19
elovabloke said:
Some posters seem to think the General has something to worry about. If he’s done nothing wrong nothing will be found, end of.
You're right in a sense.
He has nothing to worry about except the perception regarding having his reputation and upstanding tarnished by The Scum/Government.
I suspect whatever the outcome of the FOI, they'll be some political gain and a few Ministers will grace Andrew Marr or Robert Preston with an interview spouting double standards etc.

Will it do much in the long term if it materialises that he likes the best port and quaffs Champagne like a dirty Essex WAG? Not really!

Will it affect his chances of a top directorship or being a senior lecturer in some institute or other? Not one iota!

As MiT says, being politically astute is the best way to make it to CGS or CDS but once there, I believe, they should exploit the position for what is best for the forces/army and not their politico masters.

I believe that the political ambition time-line should read:
2Lt - Capt - Bimble along and have a jolly good time :D
Maj - Lt Gen - Kiss serious arrse :pukel:
Gen> - Tell it like it is! :wink:
 

Sixty

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#20
the_boy_syrup said:
Didn't Kevan(?) Jones try this a year or two ago
I seem to remember that he was banging on about the top brass having a cook, driver ,steward etc
Of course that was before there own expenses were revealed
Yep, he did it with the Adjutant General's staff and entertaining costs. Who'll give me odds on who's involved this time?

Edit: Just had a look at Hansard. It wasn't just the AG whose costs /expenses he was after.
 

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