The Search for a new SPG

DE&S release key user requirements




Impetus is moving to longer range and lethal effect, so will we be saying bye bye to the Ligh Gun except for 29 and 7RHA?
Looks like that's a viable course of action.
I wouldn't bin them entirely as they're great for Africa type conflicts where speed and mobility are needed.
 
The U.K. needs either Archer (MAN 8x8 chassis) or CAESAR 8x8.

The only real advantage that CAESAR has is the amount of rounds carried.

it is definitely needed for Strike which means 2 regiments worth.

realistically the Armd Inf will have to (in a near peer/peer conflict) fight at least semi-dispersed too. Question is does the AS90 replacement need to be tracked too?

Equip all the Armd Inf And Strike Bdes with a common 155mm SP (ie wheeled)?

the numbers (Total 4 regiments) don’t really lend themselves to 2 types
 
Looks like that's a viable course of action.
I wouldn't bin them entirely as they're great for Africa type conflicts where speed and mobility are needed.
Main advantage being they are air portable by a wider variety of aircraft. Plus for light infantry they have a smaller danger area which means they fire for longer.

replacement with M777 (airportable by Chinook, not sure about Merlin or Puma)?
 

NemoIII

War Hero
The U.K. needs either Archer (MAN 8x8 chassis) or CAESAR 8x8.
Or just have 4 regiments on Boxer RCH?

CAESAR leaves the gun crew exposed and requires time into and out of position. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't ARCHER have a limited firing angle? This might be the same as CEASAR, therefore you're having to position massive 8x8 truck to to able to fire.

This is alright in large open areas like Africa, but I've seen AS90 parked on forest tracks firing the gun 90 degrees to the Left/Right. No a chance you could position a 8X8 in that sort of scenario.

Wouldn't it be better to have the least amount of platforms? BOXER for Strike/Armoured then light gun for Para/Commando (if they still require Guns in there future plans)
 
Or just have 4 regiments on Boxer RCH?

CAESAR leaves the gun crew exposed and requires time into and out of position. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't ARCHER have a limited firing angle? This might be the same as CEASAR, therefore you're having to position massive 8x8 truck to to able to fire.

This is alright in large open areas like Africa, but I've seen AS90 parked on forest tracks firing the gun 90 degrees to the Left/Right. No a chance you could position a 8X8 in that sort of scenario.

Wouldn't it be better to have the least amount of platforms? BOXER for Strike/Armoured then light gun for Para/Commando (if they still require Guns in there future plans)
Surely para/ commando are already doing what a " strike" brigade is supposed to do?
Which begs the question of why we need more light, lightly armed and lightly armoured, units to do what could be done so much more effectively with proper armoured brigades?
Just how much, manpower, equipment and frequency wise, are we planning on wasting charging about Africa to brass up a few insurgents?
 

NemoIII

War Hero
Surely para/ commando are already doing what a " strike" brigade is supposed to do?
Not sure what the plan with the Commandos is? Under the future plan the Brigade is unlikely to be deployable as it is currently. I dont know if they are planning the keep army units in the Brigade.


Which begs the question of why we need more light, lightly armed and lightly armoured, units to do what could be done so much more effectively with proper armoured brigades?
You arguing that instead of BOXER RCH we should be going down the PZ2000/K9/M109 route? I personally think BOXER RCH would be a good replacement for AS90, as it could be used in almost every possible scenario.

I agree we shouldnt really be looking at trucks with guns are they severely limit the scenarios they can be used. They couldnt even be deployed in a FOB are they can't fire 360°.
 
Not sure what the plan with the Commandos is? Under the future plan the Brigade is unlikely to be deployable as it is currently. I dont know if they are planning the keep army units in the Brigade.

You arguing that instead of BOXER RCH we should be going down the PZ2000/K9/M109 route? I personally think BOXER RCH would be a good replacement for AS90, as it could be used in almost every possible scenario.

I agree we shouldnt really be looking at trucks with guns are they severely limit the scenarios they can be used. They couldnt even be deployed in a FOB are they can't fire 360°.
Could it BE any higher . . . :( ?!

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Lower the turret? Dismount it more like !
B@llux to that, get Archer or Ceasar.
 

NemoIII

War Hero
Lower the turret? Dismount it more like !
B@llux to that, get Archer or Ceasar.
What's a plus points to Archer/Ceasar to RCH? Lower overall height? I doubt there will be much in it between a SV cab and a RCH.

Archer/ceasar is just not suitable for Mechanised/Armojred units.

ETA - An armoured SV cab is actually taller than a BOXER RCH.
 
.

Surely para/ commando are already doing what a " strike" brigade is supposed to do?
Which begs the question of why we need more light, lightly armed and lightly armoured, units to do what could be done so much more effectively with proper armoured brigades?
Just how much, manpower, equipment and frequency wise, are we planning on wasting charging about Africa to brass up a few insurgents?
because light infantry is too light and Armd Inf takes too long to deploy
 
C5 yes

C17 no, the interior is 6 inches lower than the A400
Who cares? Deploying heavy armour by air is always a stupid thing to do unless you have no alternatives?
 
Or just have 4 regiments on Boxer RCH?

CAESAR leaves the gun crew exposed and requires time into and out of position. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't ARCHER have a limited firing angle? This might be the same as CEASAR, therefore you're having to position massive 8x8 truck to to able to fire.

This is alright in large open areas like Africa, but I've seen AS90 parked on forest tracks firing the gun 90 degrees to the Left/Right. No a chance you could position a 8X8 in that sort of scenario.

Wouldn't it be better to have the least amount of platforms? BOXER for Strike/Armoured then light gun for Para/Commando (if they still require Guns in there future plans)
I question the mobility of Boxer RCH and how top heavy it is. Also any orders /in service ?

I’d say say Archer over Caesar due to that and quicker in & out of action. Archer has a traverse of +/- 85 degrees

in the future, I can’t see gun positions being occupied until fire required therefore it should be able to get to a new position.

i absolutely agree, whatever is selected needs to suit Armd Inf and Strike Bdes (Archer can go on MAN 8x8 in service, not sure about CAESAR)
 
I am thinking - and its a dangerous thing - that ideally ( so wont happen ) we go for a multiple layer system

A. 81mm mortar + 105 light gun - quickest to deploy on fire fighting missions in areas where we seek to stiffen the spine of government X - deployable by air in emergency. As we tend to leave things to the last minute in hopes of negotiated solutions, its more than likely to happen.

B. Archer/Ceasar + Nemo 120mm mortar - for if situation A escalates as the oppo starts getting heavy weaponry and into 122mm arty or the like - transportable by air at a pinch- otherwise sail to nearest port and deploy via road. This should always overmatch most central African situations.

C. Archer/Ceasar + Nemo + As90mkZ or tracked SPG - for dealing with shoot n scoot missions when the oppo is peer or near peer and when encountering shell splinters will be guaranteed at some point.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Surely para/ commando are already doing what a " strike" brigade is supposed to do?
Which begs the question of why we need more light, lightly armed and lightly armoured, units to do what could be done so much more effectively with proper armoured brigades?
Just how much, manpower, equipment and frequency wise, are we planning on wasting charging about Africa to brass up a few insurgents?
Because have limited money and makes it look like we're doing something meaningful.

Never mind that STRIKE lacks logistical support in the UK interpretation.
 
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