The Search for a new SPG

Not sure if this should be in this thread or the MIV/FRES thread:


MBDA proposes an anti-tank/rocket artillery solution with a mixture of Brimstone and SPEAR 3 in a big box on an Ares vehicle. Whoosh!
 
The Czech Republic will procure 52 CAESAR on the 8x8 Tatra chassis.


This comes after the sale 36 CAESAR 6x6 on truck chassis to Morocco announced last January.
 
Is it just me, or did anyone else think this was a thread about recruiting for a specialist riot squad?
 
The Czech Republic will procure 52 CAESAR on the 8x8 Tatra chassis.


This comes after the sale 36 CAESAR 6x6 on truck chassis to Morocco announced last January.
Additional info: scheduled value of the order 224 million euros, delivery dates between 2022 and 2026.
 

arcticfox042

War Hero
There will only ever be one SPG...............

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Now a source in English. On top of the 52 firm order, there is also an option for another 12.

I agree with Caesar type howitzers in the context of Mali type ops. Highly mobile against an enemy with limited counter battery fire. Im not so sure of it in Europe where I think a tracked, armoured, howitzer works especailly in places where winter weather and spring thaw can cause problems and against formidable opponents. Im surprised that the French havent developed a tracked replacement for the GCT ? Or have I got that wrong ?
 
I agree with Caesar type howitzers in the context of Mali type ops. Highly mobile against an enemy with limited counter battery fire. Im not so sure of it in Europe where I think a tracked, armoured, howitzer works especailly in places where winter weather and spring thaw can cause problems and against formidable opponents. Im surprised that the French havent developed a tracked replacement for the GCT ? Or have I fgot that wrong ?
I agree with you as I have already written in the Strike thread before. I think it is not a good idea to dispense entirely with tracked and fully armoured SPGs.

The problem is that heavy forces have no advocate in the FRA high command as about 95% of the top brass has a light background (Parachute, SF, FFL, Marine or Mountain units) and have no experience/interest in tracked, heavy forces.

At this point, there is no tracked, armoured replacement for the few remaining and obsolete AUF-1 tracked SPGs. The plan is to replace them by CAESAR 8X8 by 2030....cheap and cheerful and zero life expectancy in a Ukraine type of scenario. Saying this, what would be the life expectancy of a nearly 60 tons PzH 2000 ?

The choice of CAESAR is not surprising for CZ because they are used to operating wheeled SPGs (Dana) and the 8X8 version of the CAESAR uses a Tatra chassis, made in CZ. This is also the reason why CZ bought 62 Titus APCs from Nexter as the Titus uses a Tatra chassis.
 
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I agree with you as I have already written in the Strike thread before. I think it is not a good idea to dispense entirely with tracked and fully armoured SPGs.

The problem is that heavy forces have no advocate in the FRA high command as about 95% of the top brass has a light background (Parachute, SF, FFL, Marine or Mountain units) and have no experience/interest in tracked, heavy forces.

At this point, there is no tracked, armoured replacement for the few remaining and obsolete AUF-1 tracked SPGs. The plan is to replace them by CAESAR 8X8 by 2030....cheap and cheerful and zero life expectancy in a Ukraine type of scenario. Saying this, what would be the life expectancy of a nearly 60 tons PzH 2000 ?

The choice of CAESAR is not surprising for CZ because they are used to operating wheeled SPGs (Dana) and the 8X8 version of the CAESAR uses a Tatra chassis, made in CZ. This is also the reason why CZ bought 62 Titus APCs from Nexter as the Titus uses a Tatra chassis.
Which is why wheeled (120/155mm) SP is a good idea for Strike (tracked couldn’t do the job

the major issue the British Army has / will have is critical mass. The training, logistics etc costs of having both ~2 Regts of 155mm tracked SP arty and ~2 Regts of 120/155mm wheeled SP arty cannot be justified. Realistically what makes most sense is to have sufficient numbers of a single type (to avoid cuts elsewhere).

also in the Near peer environment Who want something that can set up quickly, get a fairly large amount of rounds for a 45-60 seconds and then Bug out within probably Max 30-60 seconds.
 
Which is why wheeled (120/155mm) SP is a good idea for Strike (tracked couldn’t do the job

the major issue the British Army has / will have is critical mass. The training, logistics etc costs of having both ~2 Regts of 155mm tracked SP arty and ~2 Regts of 120/155mm wheeled SP arty cannot be justified. Realistically what makes most sense is to have sufficient numbers of a single type (to avoid cuts elsewhere).

also in the Near peer environment Who want something that can set up quickly, get a fairly large amount of rounds for a 45-60 seconds and then Bug out within probably Max 30-60 seconds.
Another option is what we call "double" or even "triple qualification" in France.

SPG units are trained and can also deploy with CAESAR or towed 120 mm RT F1 heavy mortars. It gives flexibility and allows CDRs to tailor arty detachments to the exactly needed size.

The below pictures show artillerymen from the 40 Artillery Regiment (40°RA) crewing 3 different systems:

The CAESAR

DpOn-StXcAE1irr.jpg


The AUF-1 tracked SPG

Da6Jat4WkAIb0L5.jpg


The 120 mm RTF1 towed mortar

DbopJvEXkAEmK3_.jpg
 
Another option is what we call "double" or even "triple qualification" in France.

SPG units are trained and can also deploy with CAESAR or towed 120 mm RT F1 heavy mortars. It gives flexibility and allows CDRs to tailor arty detachments to the exactly needed size.

The below pictures show artillerymen from the 40 Artillery Regiment (40°RA) crewing 3 different systems:

The CAESAR

View attachment 479509

The AUF-1 tracked SPG

View attachment 479510

The 120 mm RTF1 towed mortar

View attachment 479511
same in Ireland afaik

120mm mortar, 105mm light gun and 25 Pdr (for gun salutes)
 

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