The Search for a new SPG

Russian 152 mm Malva SPG on 8x8 BAZ chassis

E3jItiQWQAQN5UE.jpeg
 
K9 compares very well across the board apparently.
They probably offer a 5 year warranty as well, knowing those beggars
 
I have not contributed - or participated in - the last 11 pages, 207 posts . . . but hope the following will not disrupt the discussion too much ;) !!


Published by: THINK DEFENCE, back on 05 MAY 2021.

Nora – A Self Propelled Gun

If the Royal Artillery does end up replacing AS90 with a wheeled system the working assumption by many seems to think it will be a three-horse race between the Boxer RCH, BAE Archer on a MAN truck chassis or perhaps a NEXTER CAESAR.

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All good, am sure any one of them would be a fine addition to the long arm of the British Army, but how about another option?

The NORA-B52 K1 is the latest in a long line of truck based self propelled guns from Yugoimport in Serbia.

Basic data, reproduced from the manufacturers website includes
  • fire mode is 12 rounds in less than 4 minutes
  • rate of fire – 4 rds/min in loading elevation
  • barrel ballistic life – 1000 rounds with charge 10 as per the firing tables
  • with autofrettage barrel – 2000 rounds with charge 10 as per the firing tables
  • Range with ERFB projectile 32.5 km
  • Range with ERFB BB projectile 41.5 km
  • Range with VLAP projectile 52 km
It has been fitted to both a Kamaz 6560 and MAN TGS chassis so one would imagine a MAN HX/SX should not present any significant challenge. It has a crew of 4 and a gross vehicle weight of less than 40 tonnes. The autoloader includes 24 projectiles and propellant charges with an additional 12 stored on the vehicle for an immediate reload.

.

A slightly modified version is currently being evaluated by the US Army, alongside the Nexter Caesar, BAE Archer and ATMOS Iron Sabre as part of their towed M777 155mm replacement programme. The video below shows instrumented firings before shipping to the USA for the trials programme.



THINK DEFENCE concludes . . .

"We can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of wheels v tracks and Boxer module v MAN truck all day long but let’s not ignore the potential of other manufacturers out there".

 
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The Czech republic confirms its order for 52 CAESAR on a Tatra 8x8 chassis.


PRAGUE – The Czech Republic will buy 52 new Caesar artillery pieces from French group Nexter Systems for 8.5 billion crowns ($395.6 million) to replace older howitzers dating back to the 1970s, the Defence Ministry said on Monday.
Defence Minister Lubomir Metnar said on Twitter a contract would be signed by the end of September.

“The participation of Czech industry in the overall volume of deliveries has been crucial for us from the very beginning,” the minister said. “And it will be fulfilled in the level of 40% of the value of the deal.”

The ministry said the weapons would be ready to be deployed between 2024 and 2026.
The first four would be completed in France and the rest in the Czech Republic, mainly in cooperation with Czech group CSG, which will supply cabs and the chassis on which the weapons will be installed, the ministry said.

The Czech Republic, a NATO member, has boosted army funding as it seeks to replace outdated machinery, although it remains below the NATO spending target of 2% of GDP.


Czech Republic to sign $396 million weapons deal with Nexter
 

dragon825

War Hero
DSEi video on YouTube and they were talking to the chief guy about the 155mm mounted on the new 10x10 MAN chassis. Key thing I took away from the spiel that it's operated by a 2 person (I'm very PC) crew, unlike Caesar which will get the bean counters wetting their panties!
 
not necessarily as the video shows although the main bangy gun truck has 2 bods but it is in a 3 truck team ie more bods.
What he seems to be saying is that the gun can load itself from the magazine in the turret and two men can operate it from within the cab. Reloading the magazines from the other trucks (could we call them limbers?) would be a different matter but he doesn't go into that in the video.

I think the idea is the gun vehicle can go by itself, fire off some rounds, and meet up with the limber vehicles in another location to replenish.

I think there was a video posted a while ago on this thread showing that with a different SP gun, or possibly even this one.
 

Dread

LE
If it can't fire a 3 round burst and then shoot-and-scoot then it mustn't be in the running.

I have yet to see a truck-mounted system being capable of driving onto an unprepared position, firing 3 rounds, and driving off - all within 2 minutes. Happy to be proven wrong.

If the MoD (in reality the Treasury) decides to go for a platform that can't shoot and scoot then it's an extremely clear signal that
a. The Treasury has had an utter sense of humour failure over the abortion that is Ajax (has anyone in uniform been fired yet, anywhere?) and this is their revenge.
b. The powers that be don't believe we'll be going up a semi-peer enemy, let alone a peer-level enemy, within the next 40 years.
c. That the cap badge wars within the Army have finally managed to beat the RA, and the artillery will (within the British Army, though nowhere else) become a 3rd rate job, while our politicians wánk over the infantry because they've got nicer mess kits, more war stories, and are far cheaper.

I can't wait for some mong at the MoD to demand a bespoke system (actually: already been done in the original requirement document stipulating 80km range and sustained rate 20) for the grand total of 2 (two) regiments' worth of guns. It's fücking pathetic.
 

dragon825

War Hero
If it can't fire a 3 round burst and then shoot-and-scoot then it mustn't be in the running.

I have yet to see a truck-mounted system being capable of driving onto an unprepared position, firing 3 rounds, and driving off - all within 2 minutes. Happy to be proven wrong.

If the MoD (in reality the Treasury) decides to go for a platform that can't shoot and scoot then it's an extremely clear signal that
a. The Treasury has had an utter sense of humour failure over the abortion that is Ajax (has anyone in uniform been fired yet, anywhere?) and this is their revenge.
b. The powers that be don't believe we'll be going up a semi-peer enemy, let alone a peer-level enemy, within the next 40 years.
c. That the cap badge wars within the Army have finally managed to beat the RA, and the artillery will (within the British Army, though nowhere else) become a 3rd rate job, while our politicians wánk over the infantry because they've got nicer mess kits, more war stories, and are far cheaper.

I can't wait for some mong at the MoD to demand a bespoke system (actually: already been done in the original requirement document stipulating 80km range and sustained rate 20) for the grand total of 2 (two) regiments' worth of guns. It's fücking pathetic.
If it can't fire a 3 round burst and then shoot-and-scoot then it mustn't be in the running.

I have yet to see a truck-mounted system being capable of driving onto an unprepared position, firing 3 rounds, and driving off - all within 2 minutes. Happy to be proven wrong.

If the MoD (in reality the Treasury) decides to go for a platform that can't shoot and scoot then it's an extremely clear signal that
a. The Treasury has had an utter sense of humour failure over the abortion that is Ajax (has anyone in uniform been fired yet, anywhere?) and this is their revenge.
b. The powers that be don't believe we'll be going up a semi-peer enemy, let alone a peer-level enemy, within the next 40 years.
c. That the cap badge wars within the Army have finally managed to beat the RA, and the artillery will (within the British Army, though nowhere else) become a 3rd rate job, while our politicians wánk over the infantry because they've got nicer mess kits, more war stories, and are far cheaper.

I can't wait for some mong at the MoD to demand a bespoke system (actually: already been done in the original requirement document stipulating 80km range and sustained rate 20) for the grand total of 2 (two) regiments' worth of guns. It's fücking pathetic.


According to the HX3 howitzer drawings published by the company Rheinmetall, the turret seems to be remotely controlled offering a high rate of fire and Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) Mission. All the firing operations could be performed from inside of the crew cab. To respond to the new threats of the modern battlefield, the HX3 trucks can be equipped with an armored cab to provide ballistic protection against the firing of small arms and artillery shell splinters.

taken from the info page don't know if it gets under the 3 min mark but must be close, ironically with regards to the 80km point a joint venture between Rheinmetall and denel fired rounds out to 76km using a 52 barrel, so close and yet so far!

Edited to add from Wikipedia the same turret system was put onto boxer
As of 2019, firing trials with the turret traversed front and to its sides were carried out at WTD 41 proving ground and were successful without the use of stabilizers. The trials also demonstrated the ability to fire an 8-round burst and redeploy under 90 seconds, and carry out multi-round simultaneous impact missions. The combination of the Boxer vehicle with AGM became known as Remote Controlled Howitzer 155 (RCH 155) due to the turret module being remote controlled. ,
 
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rampant

LE
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