The SA80 and its capability

Discussion in 'The Training Wing' started by nick_iddiols, Oct 13, 2002.

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  1. Everywhere I look I read about the SA80 and its faults. Some papers and magazines say its faulty and  has stoppages. I for one have never had a stoppage in 2 yrs. In my eves its the preping and keeping of the rifle that makes it work or not.

    Are people flapping over nothing??
     
  2. ive heard some pretty stupid sh!t coming from americans who have never used it like "it falls apart if you dont clean it",ive never had a prob with it but my experiences with it so far have been few and far between.i think the problem lies with journalists sticking their noses into stuff they do'nt understand and changing words to make them say what they want to make the forces look bad and to get a nice big pay cheque in their pocket.also as soon as some fat computer geek hears it and believs every word he spreads it and soon enough every one says its crap before they've even used it.
     
  3. Are either of you Infantry??
     
  4. Just thinking the same thing  :eek:

    The SA80A1 will jam, misfeed, overheat. I know, it's happened to me on enough occasions.

    On a recent live shoot, one of the section LSW's jammed off the very first round, forcing the riflemen to take on that role, till the gunner could get it sorted out.

    Maybe the SA80's problems, are batch-specific?

    ....and I can't remember a stoppage with blank ammunition  :-/
     
  5. Hmm.  No stoppages with blanks - you lucky so and so.  I can think of a fair few occasions -  a platoon attack at the rupert factory where virtually everybody's weapon jammed about the same time - very embarrassing it was too  (never knew C/sgts could turn purple for that length of time and swear without breathing for so long - very impressive :D)

    The weapons toss.

    Though i will grant you a few lucky sods will get away with never having any faults on it at all - bastards
     
  6. I always made sure my Bayonet was extra sharp and if I could get hold of a buckshee 9mm then all the Better ;D

    We never carried them over the water in civvie cars, always HK's and 9mm, not just about the size of the weapon either, just didn't trust the cnuts :mad:
     
  7. I agree with pongo & co.

    Although Im not infantry, the A1 was toss! No matter how much you cleaned, looked after, oiled etc it gave me a stoppage approx every 10-20 rounds regardless of ammo types!

    Ive recently been issued an A2 (16AAB & all that) Did a bog standard APWT 3 weeks ago and not 1 stoppage!
    It appears as though its a vast improvement on the last, but I guess the forthcoming deployment & time will tell.

    It's still too heavy compared to other rifles!
     
  8. Throughout my 30 odd years in one uniform or another, I have fired all types of wpn from the venerable .303 to the SA80. I have even seen the rather exotic H & K G11/12, though have never fired it. (Want to, need to!)

    The problem with the SA80 family is, you get what you pay for! It is a complicated wpn (by design), cheaply made and was rushed into production.

    I can remember being on the SAA instructors course (TA) at Litchfield in '83 when a Welsh guardsman and an SAS chap were both using our range. SAS man had the original version of the LSW whilst the guardsman had the SA80. Chatted with them quite a bit (not allowed to handle wpns, let alone fire.) They were unimpressed with both wpns but said better than the SLR because of the firepower!

    Personally, I still prefer the SLR. Unless you had a radio or 'Charle G' and carried the Sterling SMG, all ammo could be used for rifle, LMG and GPMG and at 7.62mm, it had all the range and stopping power you would ever need!

    Remember guys, the SA80 was, and still is, a politically appointed wpn. No ammount of money thrown at the problems, real or imagined, will ever cure the most basic of flaws. If the troops don't trust it, we should not use it.

    Mate of mine in Basra, told me they (SA80A2) were pants. I guess £90M has still not cured all the faults. Only time will tell whether MOD finally caves in and buys the Steyr, H&K G11/12 or M16A3.
     
  9. fritz

    I feel a number of the chaps who have just returned from the sandpit would argue that the A2 performed admirably, and enabled the firer to make accurate shots out to further ranges. (not because its more powerful, but more controlable and better sighted)

    I have a straight pull SLR on my FC at the moment and whilst great fun, I remember why I preferred even the A1 to it.

    With the SLR an outstanding shot struggled to maintain accurate shots out to 400m regularly. With an SA80 an average to poor shot can achieve the same.

    Yes the SLR has awesome stopping power but find me the man that got a 5.56 through the chest that came upto you still wanting a rumble. You don't have to remove someones legs below the neck to remove him from the battlefield.

    Maybe Dogmonkey would be better suited to comment on this>
     
  10. I would have to agree with mighty on this despite all the old jokes about not being powerful enough I would not want one up my arse. And as for the keep my bayonet sharp crap get a grip man how many times have British troops had to close to close quarter in the last 20 years maybe once or twice leave that spirit of the bayonet talk to civics. All weapons have fault, have recently read (in a paper admittedly not the best source) that the septics are planning to scrap the M16 model currently in use as it is to long and has no auto selection they are looking into the M4 across the board. The desire for other weapons such as the styre or G3 comes from I believe the wish to play with a new shiny toy which would soon fade leaving every one clamouring for a new weapon
     
  11. I thought the yanks were looking to the X8?
     
  12. Theres this Pap above......from someone who's obviously been there and done that and then this from an earlier forum

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7846&sid=496a998f2afb7e5da61a5ceee53ea192

    But if you cant be Arrsed then here

    SHIELDED only by a narrow bank of baked earth as bullets flew and a grenade exploded ominously close by, Corporal Mark Byles, 34, glanced at the four soldiers who lay sweating on the ground beside him and knew what they had to do.

    Not a shiny new toy we need....just a decent proven weapon we trust :evil: [/quote]
     
  13. From http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm

     
  14. I'm a fairly new to this malarky but I already have many happy memories of stoppages with rifle 5.56.

    My relationship with the rifle got off to an interesting start in that the first time I tried to fire a round it did not function-the firing pin was fucked and I had hardly touched the weapon.
    I had a further stoppage on the ranges and a million using blanks. The main problem was not the weapon but the magazines not feeding too brilliantly-if they had been looked after then I'm sure they would not have had any problems but they had been abused by generations of recruits and although we were issued four mags each they frequently changed hands as bombed up mags were placed in a sandbag from which you randomly selected your rounds when on the firing point-you all know the drill.

    Fire and manouver drills on one exercise were hilarious, with atleast half the recruits sharing my problem at some point through the course.
     
  15. At the end of the day, the people who make the decisions never have to really rely on the kit, they are to intrested in gettin there MBE's for saving the MOD money, that the government can then spend on the chuffin lazy firefighters!!!!

    Its always been the case with the brits from day one, we make do with the shit we've got!! might i say we always do a bloody good job of it too!
    It would be nice to get a new gucci shooter, the idea of stabbing someone to death doesn't really appeal to me so i'd like one that works from far away 8O

    The old rifle was pump, the new one has had loads of money wasted on it but is better, not good just better.

    We should get the Spam's cast off's, if they can use them anyone can!!