The Royal Marines no longer needed?

This is a view of the Maritime Component of Exercise Saif Sareea 3:


This at the same time as many other commitments including Trident Juncture, which also has a naval and amphibious aspect - indeed it has two Type 23 frigates providing defence for the USS Iwo Jima, which in turn has bootnecks embarked.

Bootnecks need LPD/LSD(A)s
LPD/LSD(A)s need escorting by frigates and destroyers
Frigates and destroyers need sailors

If only the politicians were capable of this sort of joined up thinking.
Bit of a gay pose in the RN graphic though :)
1540630394763.png

Intentional?
 
They're so MoneySupermarket.
More like Villiage People! Y-M-C-A.......

@ExREME..TECH and @Guns, since this thread is/was about LPDs and similar ships, landing craft, and so on, and not bootnecks per se, could we amend the title to include 'amphibious' or 'LPD'? ARRSE can educate and inform, if the right people find the right threads.
 
I have my suspicions of a few of my amphibious oppos !!!!!!
Screen Shot 2018-10-28 at 12.28.00.png
 
Exercise Saif Sareea 3 concludes

“Streamed live to a VIP area in an inland location, an amphibious assault by Royal Marines and Omani troops onto a beach location in Eastern Oman with fast-roping from RAF Chinook helicopters of 27 Squadron, combined with naval gunfire support formed the first element of the demonstration.”

Note the picture of the Chinook aboard HMS Albion. Were landing craft used as well? The LPDs were the reason for this thread being started.

Meanwhile, what news of the Royal Marines who were aboard the USS Iwo Jima for Trident Juncture?
 
Still no news articles on the RN website about the amphibious aspects of Trident Juncture and Saif Sareea 3, however as this thread is about the LPDs, this does demonstrate their role in defence engagement:

HMS Albion heads home after Gibraltar pit stop | Royal Navy

After nearly ten months away, UK flagship HMS Albion is homeward bound for Plymouth having completed her final port of call.

The assault ship spent three days in Gibraltar, last stop before home and the end of a mammoth deployment which has taken her to Tokyo and back.


After a number of stops in the Asia-Pacific region and Middle East – Indonesia, South Korea, a lengthy period in Japan, Vietnam, Brunei and Oman amongst others....

#GlobalBritain

I still think the thread title needs to include 'LPD'. @Guns?
 
Because apparently it didnt really happen as some high up omani had a thing about hurting wales and dolphins. Friends who where there said it was all very much low key last minute.
Still no news articles on the RN website about the amphibious aspects of Trident Juncture and Saif Sareea 3, however as this thread is about the LPDs, this does demonstrate their role in defence engagement:

HMS Albion heads home after Gibraltar pit stop | Royal Navy

After nearly ten months away, UK flagship HMS Albion is homeward bound for Plymouth having completed her final port of call.

The assault ship spent three days in Gibraltar, last stop before home and the end of a mammoth deployment which has taken her to Tokyo and back.


After a number of stops in the Asia-Pacific region and Middle East – Indonesia, South Korea, a lengthy period in Japan, Vietnam, Brunei and Oman amongst others....

#GlobalBritain

I still think the thread title needs to include 'LPD'. @Guns?
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
She (Albion) is back!

Return of the A-team as HMS Albion roars into Plymouth| Royal Navy

Highlights of Albion’s ten-month deployment have included a period of two months operating in and around Japan.

The Japanese consider the RN to be the “The Mother Navy”. On departure from Japan their assault ship Shimokita ploughed through the heavy seas alongside Albion saying goodbye with salutes of respect before breaking away, while Albion continued on her way to Vietnam.

The ship demonstrated her amphibious skills alongside His Majesty the Sultan of Brunei’s Forces in Exercise Setia Kawan.

That exercise proved to be the warm-up for the flagship’s participation in the largest military exercise staged in Oman in 17 years, Exercise Saif Sareea 3, involving 65,000 Omani and more than 5,000 British military personnel, including Royal Marines from 40 Commando.

As Albion entered her home port again, she received a message of gratitude from Britain’s senior sailor, First Sea Lord Admiral Sir Philip Jones, praising the ship’s “key role in demonstrating global Britain to our international partners in the Asia-Pacific region”, her sailors and marines for being “a credit to the naval service” and the support of families back home who “endured the strain of uncertainty” caused by the flagship’s changing programme.

And Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson also sent a personal message to the 500 sailors and Royal Marines and said their deployment epitomised “Britain’s global reach” as the UK looks to a world outside the EU.

“HMS Albion and her crew have led from the front over the past ten months. The nation’s flagship has exemplified what Britain stands for – promoting freedom of navigation, engaging with partners and allies around the world, and fulfilling our global defence commitments.”


@Magic_Mushroom did make the point that she would have been better employed as part of Exercise Trident Warrior which might have had some truth in it, but.....

The problem with only having one LPD active at any one time (yes we really needed those extra 1500 bods we expected as part of SDSR 15) is that she gets jobbed for every deployment and exercise going......
 
You did not say it as such, but I understood your comment as suggesting that supporting NATO's Northern/Arctic/sub Arctic flank was a priority, therefore if we had been able to contribute a LPD, LSD(A), and more Marines to Trident Juncture it would have been useful.

A senior RN person described this year defence exercise programming as a 'car crash'.

In the last month or so - we have had Royal Marines exercising with Albion and RFA Mounts Bay in the Middle East (demonstrating the unique amphibious capabilities such vessels provide), aboard USS Iwo Jima as part of Trident Juncture, and aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth exercising a JPR role with Commando Merlins.

Trident Juncture also demonstrated amphibious assault ships need to be defended by frigates and destroyers, which two frigates showed they could do. The frigates then did some naval gunfire support.
 
You did not say it as such, but I understood your comment as suggesting that supporting NATO's Northern/Arctic/sub Arctic flank was a priority, therefore if we had been able to contribute a LPD, LSD(A), and more Marines to Trident Juncture it would have been useful...
Obviously, being able to contribute more assets and bodies anywhere is useful. However, I do believe that TJ would have been more valuable overall than SS3 in isolation.

I do not dispute the Defence Engagement benefits of deploying assets (whether they be RN, Army or RAF) in penny packages around the World. However, as recent experience has demonstrated, we cannot always rely on our coalition partners as national interests will often trump our own. Therefore, the RN can also derive benefits from exercising in greater mass in those areas where our security threats are greatest.

Achieving the correct balance will always be different but I'm unconvinced spreading the butter so thinly is the way to go (and that's not a spear at the RN).

Regards,
MM
 
In the last month or so - we have had Royal Marines exercising with Albion and RFA Mounts Bay in the Middle East (demonstrating the unique amphibious capabilities such vessels provide), aboard USS Iwo Jima as part of Trident Juncture, and aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth exercising a JPR role with Commando Merlins.

Trident Juncture also demonstrated amphibious assault ships need to be defended by frigates and destroyers, which two frigates showed they could do. The frigates then did some naval gunfire support.
Roger their jobs.
 
Despite the slightly misleading title, and the fact this thread has mostly been about the LPDs, there are other ways in which amphibiousity contributes to influence and engagement:

Royal Marines find passion in the desert as 6 year mission in Qatar begins | Royal Navy

The Gulf nation – which is due to host football’s World Cup in just four years’ time – is looking to create a marine brigade, and turned to the UK to help realise its dream of forging elite ‘seaborne soldiers’.

.....They then turned words into action with a comprehensive training package alongside the Qatari Emiri Naval Forces, assisted by British amphibious ship RFA Lyme Bay, at Port Hamad, near Doha.

For that they were joined by 539 Assault Squadron, Royal Marines raiding craft specialists from Plymouth, Merlin helicopters of 845 Naval Air Squadron, and troops of 17 Port and Maritime Regiment Royal Logistic Corps, responsible for the mexeflote powered barges Lyme Bay uses to move kit from ship to shore.

.....The spread of training offered during the exercise covered close-quarters combat/fighting in urban areas, advanced soldiering skills and boat handling during amphibious landings.

The Qataris were also given a comprehensive tour of Lyme Bay before the country’s senior military figures, led by Rear Admiral Abdullah Hussan al-Sulaiti, head of the Emiri Navy, were treated to a demonstration of what the RFA ship can do.

“The Qataris took to the training with tremendous energy and effort,” said an impressed Major Rob Garside, in charge of Bravo Company, 40 Commando.

“There’s considerable passion here to develop Qatari amphibious capabilities.”

Captain David Buck RFA, Lyme Bay’s Commanding Officer, revelled in the chance for his men and women to show off a vessel which is often eclipsed by the Royal Navy’s assault ships on exercises.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Despite the slightly misleading title, and the fact this thread has mostly been about the LPDs, there are other ways in which amphibiousity contributes to influence and engagement:

Royal Marines find passion in the desert as 6 year mission in Qatar begins | Royal Navy

The Gulf nation – which is due to host football’s World Cup in just four years’ time – is looking to create a marine brigade, and turned to the UK to help realise its dream of forging elite ‘seaborne soldiers’.

.....They then turned words into action with a comprehensive training package alongside the Qatari Emiri Naval Forces, assisted by British amphibious ship RFA Lyme Bay, at Port Hamad, near Doha.

For that they were joined by 539 Assault Squadron, Royal Marines raiding craft specialists from Plymouth, Merlin helicopters of 845 Naval Air Squadron, and troops of 17 Port and Maritime Regiment Royal Logistic Corps, responsible for the mexeflote powered barges Lyme Bay uses to move kit from ship to shore.

.....The spread of training offered during the exercise covered close-quarters combat/fighting in urban areas, advanced soldiering skills and boat handling during amphibious landings.

The Qataris were also given a comprehensive tour of Lyme Bay before the country’s senior military figures, led by Rear Admiral Abdullah Hussan al-Sulaiti, head of the Emiri Navy, were treated to a demonstration of what the RFA ship can do.

“The Qataris took to the training with tremendous energy and effort,” said an impressed Major Rob Garside, in charge of Bravo Company, 40 Commando.

“There’s considerable passion here to develop Qatari amphibious capabilities.”

Captain David Buck RFA, Lyme Bay’s Commanding Officer, revelled in the chance for his men and women to show off a vessel which is often eclipsed by the Royal Navy’s assault ships on exercises.
Well if the Qataris can do it in 6 years of peace we can do it in a year of wartime!
 
Imho the RM and specifically 3 Cdo Bde is a very necessary organisation for the U.K. to have.

But they need sufficient sea transport lift and naval units sufficient to defend that lift.

They need to be a Bde sized force (especially with regard to infantry).

They need to have more infantry (8 infantry plns currently with more firepower (not necessarily a bad thing)).
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Imho the RM and specifically 3 Cdo Bde is a very necessary organisation for the U.K. to have.

But they need sufficient sea transport lift and naval units sufficient to defend that lift.

They need to be a Bde sized force (especially with regard to infantry).

They need to have more infantry (8 infantry plns currently with more firepower (not necessarily a bad thing)).
Who will be chopped to fund this exped force? that's the question?
 
That force already exists.

Royal Navy’s amphibious force comes of age | Royal Navy

Since formation the group has been involved (inter alia) in

· Saif Sareea 2 (huge exercise in Oman, 2001)
· Operation Veritas (war against the Taleban, 2001)
· Operation Telic (war against Saddam Hussein, 2003)
· Operation Vela (West Africa, 2006)
· Operation Highbrow (evacuation from Lebanon, 2006)
· Taurus deployment (Far East, 2009)
· Operation Ellamy (Civil war in Libya 2011)
· Operation Patwin (relief mission in the Philippines, 2013)
· Operation Weald (migrant rescue/people trafficking in the Mediterranean, 2015)
· A succession of Cougar amphibious deployments (2011, 12, 13, 14 and 15)
· …until they were renamed JEF(M) (Joint Expeditionary Force (Maritime)) in 2016
· Command of Combined Task Force 50 (US carrier battle group in the Middle East, 2017)
· Saif Sareea 3 (largest UK-Omani exercise since 2001)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
But the force is about to mothball one of its big ships and is struggling to man its remaining one. Perhaps getting rid of an admiral or three would free up some cash!
 

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