The Royal Marines amphibious role ?

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By saying Kilo Company of 42 Commando specialises in assaults, do they mean company level amphibious assaults/raids? Therefore in addition to the Royal Marine Landing Craft squadron, the LPD would deploy to hotspots with a dedicated force?
One month ago, 47Cdo was formed from 1AGRM (Assault Group). As part of this, 539ASRM (Assault Squadron) became 539RSRM (Raiding Squadron). 539 was and is the specialist unit for landings. It's therefore unlikely that 42 would be duplicating this. One guess would be that they would specialise in assault of vessels and installations (as distinct from boarding)
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Secondly, bar K Company, those roles look quite one dimensional to appeal in the long term. I'd imagine attrition and transfer rates will be pretty high.
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I would imagine that there would be an ongoing rotation of personnel through the Sqns.
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Thirdly, if a patrol ship is deploying to an area known for drug trafficking, then who goes with them? Some of J company or some of M?
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That seems to still be a role of 43.
 
43 Cdo are now nuclear security only.
 

Yokel

LE
One month ago, 47Cdo was formed from 1AGRM (Assault Group). As part of this, 539ASRM (Assault Squadron) became 539RSRM (Raiding Squadron). 539 was and is the specialist unit for landings. It's therefore unlikely that 42 would be duplicating this. One guess would be that they would specialise in assault of vessels and installations (as distinct from boarding)

I would imagine that there would be an ongoing rotation of personnel through the Sqns.

That seems to still be a role of 43.
I thought 539 just operated the boats but the manpower to go to the objective and perform the task was provided by other 3 Cdo Bde units. The word 'assault' as opposed to 'boarding' suggests a non boarding role - and we are meant to be returning to the days of (small scale) raids.
 
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That's kind of the impression I got from the 43 bit of the RN website, apart from the claims that they were currently deployed worldwide and that they were responsible for the protection of the Antarctic ship.
If you believe the RN website, then I also have shares in the Forth Road Bridge you may be interested in purchasing.
 
If you believe the RN website, then I also have shares in the Forth Road Bridge you may be interested in purchasing.
I went over that today. Judging by the amount of work that's going on, there's a lot of capital investment there, so if be very interested in that offer.
 
I went over that today. Judging by the amount of work that's going on, there's a lot of capital investment there, so if be very interested in that offer.
Email me your bank account details and I'll make you a life changing offer.

One time only, you must respond immediately.
 
That's kind of the impression I got from the 43 bit of the RN website, apart from the claims that they were currently deployed worldwide and that they were responsible for the protection of the Antarctic ship.
What did you think the secret Antarctic shipyard was a cover story for?
 
Which would appear to suggest that there needs to be a sustainment / force increase buy of Merlin. Latest FOIA info on total vs forward fleets dated Feb 2018, suggest the following :

Merlin HMA 2 30 aircraft of which 20 in fwd fleet (~66%)
Merlin HC 3/4 25 aircraft of which 11 in fwd (distorted by HC4/4A upgrade)
Puma HC2 23 aircraft of which 15 in fwd (~65%)
Chinook HC 4/5/6 60 aircraft of which 39 in fwd (65%)

Assume for a minute that the Merlin HC force will hit a 65% forward/total value and you've got 16 frames for a total of 36 Merlin frames in the forward fleet. From which you've got to give 824NAS around 4 frames for training / continuity, 814NAS at least 6, leaving only 10 frames for 820/849 to do pinging and bagging. You can probably get another 6 from 845 to do lift/HDS aboard QEC, leaving 10 for 846 to cover training/continuity and the "traditional" CHF tasking. That's eyewatering for the HMA fleet and tight for the overall Merlin fleet, if Merlin had a good serviceability record. If.......

I'm sure SHF can help out with their Wokkas, but it does seem that the FAA is a tad short in comparative terms. That analysis above shows that each CSG deployment could soak up over half the forward fleet.

It would be interesting to understand where the SHF cabs are committed, because - and not intended in a derogatory way - it seems there's a disparity in demand, noting of course that everyone wants a Wokka when they're in the poo. Seems a little strange then that a new Chinook buy is being contemplated - although I'm sure that's more to recapitalise the older cabs.
the 12 new Wokkas will come with all the MH-47G style SF bells and whistles. See US FMS docs.
they will replace the oldest and most worn out 12 currently in service.

Zero interest in buying more Merlin - it’s nearly 20 years since we last did. Eye wateringly expensive, Poles just bought some.... $107 million a pop. That’s very significantly more expensive than an MV-22 That are very much on the ‘Want that one!’ list.
 
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A better view of the future of amphibious operations rather than basing it on the Longest Day and the Sands of Iwo Jima

 
the 12 new Wokkas will come with all the MH-47G style SF bells and whistles. See US FMS docs.
they will replace the oldest and most worn out 12 currently in service.

Zero interest in buying more Merlin - it’s nearly 20 years since we last did. Eye wateringly expensive, Poles just bought some.... $107 million a pop. That’s very significantly more expensive than an MV-22 That are very much on the ‘Want that one!’ list.
Om not sure that the quoted price of 104 Million** for a specialist ASW helicopter's can really be equated to the flyaway cost of 73 million for a basic transport V22 - its more than a bitt apples and oranges and that's before we ask questions like is that the aircraft price or does the 414M include a support and training package.


**414 for 4 -
 
Om not sure that the quoted price of 104 Million** for a specialist ASW helicopter's can really be equated to the flyaway cost of 73 million for a basic transport V22 - its more than a bitt apples and oranges and that's before we ask questions like is that the aircraft price or does the 414M include a support and training package.


**414 for 4 -
Except they are not buying a high end specialist ASW helicopter. theirs are bit of everything multi role ASW/SAR/CSAR.
if you want really eyewatering, look at the reason we stopped buying the only really high end ASW Merlin variant. at £100 million in 2000, they were costing more than the Frigate they were going on.

if extra rotary lift for CHF is bought, it will be MV-22’s, not Merlins
 

Yokel

LE
Except they are not buying a high end specialist ASW helicopter. theirs are bit of everything multi role ASW/SAR/CSAR.
if you want really eyewatering, look at the reason we stopped buying the only really high end ASW Merlin variant. at £100 million in 2000, they were costing more than the Frigate they were going on.

if extra rotary lift for CHF is bought, it will be MV-22’s, not Merlins
Perhaps the Merlin HM1 purchase was limited to 44 aircraft as the Cold War was over and ASW was no longer seen as critically important. The second batch was dropped amongst the cuts of the nineties.

As far as I know the Polish ones will have ASW systems such as dipping sonar. If they are expected to do CSAR etc that can only add to the cost.

Does the cost include spares and support?
 
Perhaps the Merlin HM1 purchase was limited to 44 aircraft as the Cold War was over and ASW was no longer seen as critically important. The second batch was dropped amongst the cuts of the nineties.

As far as I know the Polish ones will have ASW systems such as dipping sonar. If they are expected to do CSAR etc that can only add to the cost.

Does the cost include spares and support?
nope, the Merlin was simply Unaffordable.

it’s unit costs went off the scale as the hoped for huge orders didnt materialise Thanks in large part to its inherent design issues and stupid complexity..

dont forget, Hesseltine dreamed it would be the next Sea King selling in its thousands... and it’s only sold in the low hundreds over 20 years - and we were the biggest buyer.

CHF like their hot rod performance, but aren’t so impressed with its availability that’s still stubbornly refusing to move much above 50% after 20 years of trying.

Merlin will be replaced by whatever the Yanks choose to replace their Blackhawk.
see V-280, SB-1 Defiant
 
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Yokel

LE
nope, the Merlin was simply Unaffordable.

it’s unit costs went off the scale as the hoped for huge orders didnt materialise Thanks in large part to its inherent design issues and stupid complexity..

dont forget, Hesseltine dreamed it would be the next Sea King selling in its thousands... and it’s only sold in the low hundreds over 20 years - and we were the biggest buyer.

CHF like their hot rod performance, but aren’t so impressed with its availability that’s still stubbornly refusing to move much above 50% after 20 years of trying.

Merlin will be replaced by whatever the Yanks choose to replace their Blackhawk.
see V-280, SB-1 Defiant
I remember having this discussion with respect to the ASW Merlin. Limited availability due to lack of spares or funding is not the same as the aircraft abandoning a sortie due to things going wrong

I remember that the RN/RAF buy was about seventy aircraft of both versions. Who bought these hundreds?
 

Yokel

LE
Getting back to the LPD issue - it appears that Albion is going to be busy in the New Year having finished BOST.

The training came off the back of a busy year for Albion with two major exercises off northwest Scotland in the spring and autumn and a summer spent leading a UK task force to the Baltic.

“Notwithstanding a particularly demanding year – and numerous 5am starts throughout the training period – the ship’s company rose to the challenge and dealt admirably with everything that was thrown at it,” said Commander John Brennan, the ship’s weapon engineer officer.

“It was an exemplary performance and testament to the fantastic team who make up HMS Albion, the Fleet’s flagship.”

After Christmas leave, the 350-plus sailors and Royal Marines will return in the New Year to prepare to lead the Navy’s winter deployment to the Arctic.
 

Yokel

LE
On a amphibious/auxiliary theme - here is one for @instinct and @PhotEx. Yes I know it is from StRN but..

In focus: the highly versatile Bay class auxiliaries

The requirement to replace the 6 Round Table class LSLs, starting with RFA Sir Geraint and RFA Sir Percivale led to the establishment of the Alternative Landing Ship Logistic (ALSL) project in 1997. The 1998 Defence Review committed to a balanced amphibious capability for the RN and confirmed these ships would be constructed. The ALSL had evolved into the Landing Ship Dock Auxiliary, LSD(A) by Autumn of 2002 and the specification called for a ship that could carry at least 350 troops, had 500 lane metres for vehicles and embark 70 tonnes war maintenance reserves (stores, fuel and ammunition). The ship would be able to operate helicopters and mexeflotes, while being able to offload vehicles in conditions up to Sea State 3. The Albion class LPDs would provide the amphibious spearhead and command and control while the Bay class would back it up carrying a larger number of troops, vehicles and stores that will sustain the assault.

Moving on:

There are about 1,200 line-metres available on the vehicle deck with a theoretical load of up to 24 Challenger tanks and 150 trucks. Vehicles can be embarked through door in the starboard side and there is a lift to transport vehicles or stores between the vehicle deck and upper deck. There is also space on the upper deck for either 12 x 40-TEU or 24 x 24-TEU containers. Two 30-tonne upper deck cranes are used for cargo handling and to load LCVPs and boats on or off the upper deck. The floodable well dock has space for either 2 Landing Craft Vehicle and Personnel (LCVP) or 1 Landing Craft Utility (LCU). Two large Mexeflotes (powered rafts) can be carried, strapped to the port and starboard side of the ship.

Modifications are discussed:

A weakness of the Bay class is the lack of permanent aircraft hangar but in 2008 Rubb UK was contracted to design and fit the first temporary aircraft shelter to RFA Cardigan Bay. All four ships have been subsequently been fitted with this 15m x 18m steel-framed and fabric-covered structure that offers some protection from the elements for aircraft, boats, stores and personnel (not always fitted).

and.....

Ships deploying to higher threat regions have been fitted with two 20mm Phalanx CIWS and two DS30B 30mm cannons. Initially, the Phalanx units were bolted to the upper deck amidships, port and starboard. For her service in the Gulf in 2016 Lyme Bay was fitted with Phalanx in a fore and aft arrangement as the original design intended, one placed on the foredeck mount and one on the aft superstructure. This offers better arcs of fire and less clutter on upper deck area.

Terribly sorry - I did not see the date.
 
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Yokel

LE
Getting back to the LPDs (and Merlins) - when HMS Bulwark was deployed to the Mediterranean in 2015 (migrants - picking them up) she had three Merlins embarked. Did they use some sort of temporary hangar (like the one she used in the Gulf in 2006) or what?

Or were they frequently close to land and airfields so that the aircraft could be hangared and maintained ashore?
 

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