The Rise of the Centrist

The politics of envy pure & simple as stated elsewhere. 20% of a few million is a significant amount to be giving up.

My politics are slightly to the right of centre & I firmly believe in the adage that it is the right of us all to pay as little tax as legally possible. If I had millions I woukd certainly employ accountants to ensure that I payed as little as possible.
Don’t kid yourself mate. I don’t envy these people. I wouldn’t mind what they do if they paid their fair share into the common good that is society as a whole.

They don’t and I despise them and the corruption they create in their quest for supremacy over the rest of us.

I also think it’s highly amusing that they are so convincing in what they do that some people are happy to make excuses for them.

That speaks volumes to me about the mugs that do so!
 
John Smith suffered the tragedy of dying on the cusp of what might have been greatness, but his reputation has been burnished ever since by this, and by comparison of what might have been under him and what reality was under Blair, in much the same way as JFK vs LBJ & Nixon.

Cook was a bit of a windbag IMHO - very good at pompous moralising but of no utility as a Foreign Secretary (although he was a towering colossus compared to Straw or Beckett).

Benn was a very clever man, but he was a poor politician. A decade of Tory rule in the 80s was his towering achievement.
I seem to have a problem understanding your dismissal of Benn and Cook as politicians.

Surely they were the kind of genuine and honest politicians that are so lacking today?
I agree with your view of John Smith, what if …….
another potential great politician. Instead we ended up with Blair, the smiling viper. Eugh!

I am also puzzled that the Labour Party produced such quality, so far removed from my centrist beliefs?

The Conservatives and Liberals did not even come close in the same period. JohnnyMercer still finding his way?
 
I seem to have a problem understanding your dismissal of Benn and Cook as politicians.

Surely they were the kind of genuine and honest politicians that are so lacking today?
I agree with your view of John Smith, what if …….
another potential great politician. Instead we ended up with Blair, the smiling viper. Eugh!

I am also puzzled that the Labour Party produced such quality, so far removed from my centrist beliefs?

The Conservatives and Liberals did not even come close in the same period. JohnnyMercer still finding his way?

Of course then there was Cook and his ethical foreign policy, perhaps he thought ethics was near Suffolk?
 
Don’t kid yourself mate. I don’t envy these people. I wouldn’t mind what they do if they paid their fair share into the common good that is society as a whole.

They don’t and I despise them and the corruption they create in their quest for supremacy over the rest of us.

I also think it’s highly amusing that they are so convincing in what they do that some people are happy to make excuses for them.

That speaks volumes to me about the mugs that do so!
As I said & as you are reinforcing, the politics of envy.

I pity you, going through life like that it's not healthy.
 
As I said & as you are reinforcing, the politics of envy.

I pity you, going through life like that it's not healthy.
And that people is how they justify their we are superior than you attitude to those who they can’t pursuade to follow their creed…..
 
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And that people is how they justify their we are superior than you attitude to those who they can’t pursued to follow their creed…..
And in English?
 
Don’t kid yourself mate. I don’t envy these people. I wouldn’t mind what they do if they paid their fair share into the common good that is society as a whole.
What is "their fair share" though.

The article talks about those on total remuneration (note: not salary) of £10M plus, and states they are paying about 20%.

So they're putting £2,000,000 pounds or thereabouts in the pot each year.

They're taking advantage of dividends and pension payments etc. so that the tax rate they pay is below the top level tax rate, but you don't need to be paid millions to do that, just run your own company.

Are you angry about their wealth or the tax rate - hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of normal people on normal income also use the same methods to lower their effective tax rate.
 
If I was tasked with fixing Britain - fat chance - I might start by pruning back the universities.

They are supposed to be centers of academic excellence where free debate and critical thinking foster new ideas - ideas that either withstand rigorous intellectual scrutiny or are discarded. Universities are not supposed to be snowflake safe spaces, or politically correct bubbles that support pseudo academic '_____ studies' courses run by Marxist autocrats.

At the moment, many universities don't seem to be fit for purpose.
I think one of the greatest problems we have in society today, is ideas that come out of university good and bad used to slowly germinate in the wider world. Be tested in very small studies by the ideas adherent over decades and then if sound enough, could finally coalesce into a meaningful and semi-workable government policy paper for wider discussion.

Today every idea coming out of university is being cut and pasted immediately into government policy papers and the media are openly discussing them as 'science fact' rather than 'science opinion', the opinion bit is important to understand, because it may well be a good idea to have mandatory mask wearing forever(though it doesn't keep you safe from disease), but how does that fit in the idea we live in an open and free society, except when science decides otherwise.

What's coming out of universities is universally progressive and we seem to have very few centrist scientists.

p.s.
Its interesting but I think 'centrists' are by nature linked to specific types of career, increasingly the professional classes have moved away from centrism towards progressivism.
 

Revie

Old-Salt
The centrists gave us Tony Blair.

A civilization needs a moral and ethical code, a mythology and that Burkean thing of the contract between the past, the present and the future. Islam and the Chinese have this, we don't. Ergo they're winning.
 
Gentlemen - and other genders - the whole system has not shifted to the Left.

The media narrative has been hijacked and shifted to the Left but the people in the real world have stayed where they were and always have been in this country: slightly Left-of-centre, in that they believe in free education, a welfare state, the NHS and so on. These are the people now being branded XRW.

If the Labour Party has capitulated to loons, then that's because it's a shadow - indeed, a mockery - of what it once was. That's not our concern. Let it eat itself. The answer will be at the ballot box.

The same applies to the MSM and the BBC. Woke gobshítery on the telly and in the media does not mean that the country has lurched to the Left.

80-seat majority.

It just means that the traditional media channels have been usurped.

So stop saying it.

Yes and no... yes it certainly appearers that the whole system has shifted to the left, the vanguard element of the agenda lead media etc. however as you correctly point out all the institutions positions, are not reflective of the populace, and there is now some pushback being rallied at them, by the populace.

Where I say No, is that this Conservative Government and some within the wider Conservative party, seem to be anything but Conservative, many of us have discussed this more than once or twice across various threads and a common comment from those who identify as conservative is WTAF are they doing and why. particularly with holding an 80 seat majority.

As has been said by you and others in part it may be because the official opposition being both riven with vicious in-fighting, it's tying itself in knot with ludicrous adherence to identitarian causes and seems to care little if at all for the working class.


While I want the Conservatives as a government and party too rightfully appeal to the working class is should be because of its core ideology not by becoming a blue labour party. I have said many times you become stand on core ideology but may then have to move a little to govern from the centre i.e. Reduce the burden to the welfare state by making it work better rather than slashing the benefit claimants money.

That is not to say never reduce entitlements rather its how it is done. The same principal then applied across the public purse, don't be seen to be spending five pounds to save sixpence being the core ideology.


On a slight tangent but very much on the theme of centrism, I am saddened to say that 'Boris' is not the man I had hoped he would be, while at the begin many of us who voted for him be it either somewhat tentatively or vigorously, did so knowing his likely weakness's but hope that in the round he would step up to the plate and declined to jump on the 'grrr Boris Bus' particularly when at the beginning of Covid no one had a real idea of what was likely to happen. That the cabinet and front benches, should have been more capable is also something that saddens me.

Don't even start me on undue influence on governance by 'The Behavioural Insights Team – also known as the Nudge Units' that they seem to be stocked with those who, it would seem to be if not actual communists seem at the very least inspired and educated in an academia that has long been under the spell of 'the long march through the institutions'... best for another thread perhaps.



Perhaps the Conservative Government without an hostile EU, a weak opposition and parliament, Covid and lastly a 'Green Agenda' that no one voted for which is neither likely to conserving the planet, or work without driving western society back to agrarianism and thus likely warfare.

I would have more faith in a Conservative Government not being lead or pushed to the left thus its all just the madness of media and mentalist zealots, a signal to noise problem... Then I would "stop saying it."


Right I am off to spend the day with my father who despite being child during the war cannot fathom how and as importantly why the UK has and is changing beyond recognition. I find it sad that as all 'empires' do eventually fall, had always thought me mum and dad, would have been toes up long before then so not having to live through it decline. There never was a golden age but the centre needs to step and be heard.
 
The centrists gave us Tony Blair.
A Majority Public awarded itself Bliar.
It's called democracy at the ballot box.
It's happened before.
It's called history.
It'll happen again.
It's called being lemmings.
It will not happen to me.
I do not vote.
I just sit back with popcorn and watch the lemmings foaming.
 
The centrists gave us Tony Blair.

A civilization needs a moral and ethical code, a mythology and that Burkean thing of the contract between the past, the present and the future. Islam and the Chinese have this, we don't. Ergo they're winning.

An interesting post, particularly the mentioning of 'Mythology', don't have time to go into detail in this post but there has been a growth in historical and philosophy being covered of the last few years particularly on alt media, that discusses the importance of such things.


I am minded to think of the top of my head many podcasts and YouTube long form discussions by 'Jordan Peterson' and 'Carl Benjamin aka Sargon of Akkad' but those names could be considered as attractive to trolls...
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Yes and no... yes it certainly appearers that the whole system has shifted to the left, the vanguard element of the agenda lead media etc. however as you correctly point out all the institutions positions, are not reflective of the populace, and there is now some pushback being rallied at them, by the populace.

Where I say No, is that this Conservative Government and some within the wider Conservative party, seem to be anything but Conservative, many of us have discussed this more than once or twice across various threads and a common comment from those who identify as conservative is WTAF are they doing and why. particularly with holding an 80 seat majority.

As has been said by you and others in part it may be because the official opposition being both riven with vicious in-fighting, it's tying itself in knot with ludicrous adherence to identitarian causes and seems to care little if at all for the working class.


While I want the Conservatives as a government and party too rightfully appeal to the working class is should be because of its core ideology not by becoming a blue labour party. I have said many times you become stand on core ideology but may then have to move a little to govern from the centre i.e. Reduce the burden to the welfare state by making it work better rather than slashing the benefit claimants money.

That is not to say never reduce entitlements rather its how it is done. The same principal then applied across the public purse, don't be seen to be spending five pounds to save sixpence being the core ideology.


On a slight tangent but very much on the theme of centrism, I am saddened to say that 'Boris' is not the man I had hoped he would be, while at the begin many of us who voted for him be it either somewhat tentatively or vigorously, did so knowing his likely weakness's but hope that in the round he would step up to the plate and declined to jump on the 'grrr Boris Bus' particularly when at the beginning of Covid no one had a real idea of what was likely to happen. That the cabinet and front benches, should have been more capable is also something that saddens me.

Don't even start me on undue influence on governance by 'The Behavioural Insights Team – also known as the Nudge Units' that they seem to be stocked with those who, it would seem to be if not actual communists seem at the very least inspired and educated in an academia that has long been under the spell of 'the long march through the institutions'... best for another thread perhaps.



Perhaps the Conservative Government without an hostile EU, a weak opposition and parliament, Covid and lastly a 'Green Agenda' that no one voted for which is neither likely to conserving the planet, or work without driving western society back to agrarianism and thus likely warfare.

I would have more faith in a Conservative Government not being lead or pushed to the left thus its all just the madness of media and mentalist zealots, a signal to noise problem... Then I would "stop saying it."


Right I am off to spend the day with my father who despite being child during the war cannot fathom how and as importantly why the UK has and is changing beyond recognition. I find it sad that as all 'empires' do eventually fall, had always thought me mum and dad, would have been toes up long before then so not having to live through it decline. There never was a golden age but the centre needs to step and be heard.
My dearly departed (and probably now very unfashionable) history teacher, in teaching us about empires noted that they fail because they become weak and complacent.

There was an obvious track through Roman to British.

Whether we have an empire as such now is a discussion. Many people have pointed to the US's global dominance in recent decades but is that really an empire? Certainly, it is eating itself from within and its power is waning. The agents of that change are, again, a discussion point but it's probably fair to say that the US has been invaded, if not physically. No doubt the agitprop which fuels Woke, Antifa and so on are receiving not a little overseas encouragement of one form or another.

What we're seeing is a threat to society's cohesion. Not just in the UK but in the US and other Western-aligned countries.

I agree, to bring it back to the UK, that the Tories appear to be walking blindly into it, or else doing very little about it. It may be the complacency of an always-there-to-be-squandered 80-seat majority. It may be that Brexit and Covid chew up bandwidth enough.

One thing is sure: the population isn't happy. That's not pushing it into Labour's arms. Far from it; if the Tories are failing to shine in many respects Labour is still managing to make them a beacon of virtue by comparison.

I've no issues with that. Labour is a mediocrity of its own making - see comments above about getting complacent and dying from within.

I do, though, think that we need to be doing more to slap down the nonsense of the identitarians. Because it is precisely nonsense.

Yours aye,

Gammon Major
 
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I'm not sure I agree, but I'm genuinely intrigued by which professions you would put where.
Professional people and I include myself in that group are very self aware and will tend to go with the prevailing power centres and work to the leader, or at least pretend to echo the bollox for an easy life and science is one of many subjects that have being co-opted.

This idea that a culture war between left/right has begun and the 'centrist' is stuck in the middle, is not really true. Because ALL the power is already in the hands of the progressives and universities now have a direct pipeline straight into government policy papers.

The only thing that now stands in the way of progress are the socially conservative who've had enough and started to fight back and the vast majority of misinformed people who we've taken to calling moderates/centrists and I personally see them as the working and middle class mob disinterested in anything that doesn't directly affect them, but when it does you get that 'Oh Boy' political moment and panic (see: Brexit).
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
A Majority Public awarded itself Bliar.
It's called democracy at the ballot box.
It's happened before.
It's called history.
It'll happen again.
It's called being lemmings.
It will not happen to me.
I do not vote.
I just sit back with popcorn and watch the lemmings foaming.
Blair.

A combination of the country, at that time, being heart-sick of the Tories; of hijacking the Tories' policies and making promises to all sorts of rag-bag splinter groups (banning fox-hunting, etc.).

Even then, in his 'landslide', Blair polled fewer votes than Major did to gain a thumbnail at the previous General Election.

That the Tories then failed for several years to get their shït in one sock was their own problem (and, arguably, ours). It's not that Blair was anything special and we're still paying for the mistake now.
 
An interesting post, particularly the mentioning of 'Mythology', don't have time to go into detail in this post but there has been a growth in historical and philosophy being covered of the last few years particularly on alt media, that discusses the importance of such things.


I am minded to think of the top of my head many podcasts and YouTube long form discussions by 'Jordan Peterson' and 'Carl Benjamin aka Sargon of Akkad' but those names could be considered as attractive to trolls...
Both have recognized what Psychology knew about centuries ago i.e. the ancient texts really were literature designed around concepts to make humans better people and the idea that we have an individual consciousness with nature or god, that transcends being a 'good citizen' and if that is unbalanced and society as a whole is chaos then its how societies have turned to the darkest ideas and short cuts to heaven like communism/fascism.

P.S. I happen to believe we have a new short cut to heaven and progressivism is driving society to hell at an accelerated rate, because you can't keep dividing people and atomising society through technology forever without consequences.
 
Blair.

A combination of the country, at that time, being heart-sick of the Tories; of hijacking the Tories' policies and making promises to all sorts of rag-bag splinter groups (banning fox-hunting, etc.).

Even then, in his 'landslide', Blair polled fewer votes than Major did to gain a thumbnail at the previous General Election.

That the Tories then failed for several years to get their shït in one sock was their own problem (and, arguably, ours). It's not that Blair was anything special and we're still paying for the mistake now.
Pretty much "Who is going to be the least worst and injurious to my wallet" as usual I suppose.
Chronic or what.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Pretty much "Who is going to be the least worst and injurious to my wallet" as usual I suppose.
Chronic or what.
The promise of 'no income tax rises', which was to offset fears of Labour's spendthrift reputation. The bovine mass weren't wise enough to realise that that didn't mean that they wouldn't slap taxes on anything else, or raid their pensions and savings... pah.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
If you cycle to work rather than drive your car, that is tax avoidance

You're legally avoidance the tax you would pay in fuel duty and the value added tax added to the price of the fuel and to the amount of fuel duty

So cycling to work makes you a dirty tax avoider for example
And you've probably bought the bike on a Cycle to Work scheme, you charlatan.
 

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