The Rise of the Centrist

He held onto his core beliefs, many of which I happen to disagree with. He served as a cabinet member in different governments, under different leaders. He is widely respected for his intellect and his written political works.
Benn was never afraid to change his position on a range of topics. As energy minister, he supported nuclear power as affordable and safe. When he revised how expensive and dangerous it had become, he turned against its use in all forms.
His views on membership of the EU never really changed at all. He saw the direction it was taking and rightly challenged it, as undemocratic and feeding power without accountability.
Above all, he was a gentleman who did not bluff, whether he was debating in parliament, or in the media. Benn was always on top of his brief.
The only other politician of his time who comes close was Robin Cook. He resigned because his ideals were challenged by taking the country into a war he did not believe in.
Apart from refusing to get involved in the Vietnam war, Harold Wilson’s left-leaning advocacy was as miserable as any other.
I had to add that because I am still saddened by the loss of John Smith, at a time when the country needed him most, and I’m not a supporter of the idealism of the left. The fact remains that only the labour party have provided such exceptional probity and leadership, when the political ethos I follow has not done so.
The statesmanship can be argued by better folk than me, but it’s a refection of our society in recent history, that so many good men have been of the left leaning political vein. We seem to have lost considerable leadership qualities at the heart of British politics.

There was a lot of really good stuff in that Post.
I haven't processed it all through yet but two things stick out.

1) When Benn first arrived on my radar aged 14/15 - I did not listen closely enough to his message. In mitigation - it was around the same period when Militant Tendency, Scargill and Derek Hatton were all purporting to be Labour Party too - and they were all loathsome.

2) Why do Centrist Labour activists ( over the last 40 years ) allow filthy Trots to spoil their hard work ?

And is it time for Labour to cut itself loose from the Unions ?
 
Innocent enough, before he died, to have hidden his wealth away to ensure that his family and not the tax man got the lot.

I said innocent, not stupid...

And if doing so made him a hypocrite, well, he was in the Labour Party.

I won't condemn him too roundly because I also have a 'good understanding' with my accountant.
At least, I do when I have any money.
 
And is it time for Labour to cut itself loose from the Unions ?
Didn't they try that in the 70s when a bunch split off to form the Social Democrats? In a very simplistic way the strength of the traditional labour movement came from numbers and collective bargaining. It feels like it's much the same in politics as the new Change group proved.
 
If the Labour Party has capitulated to loons, then that's because it's a shadow - indeed, a mockery - of what it once was. That's not our concern. Let it eat itself. The answer will be at the ballot box.

Trouble is we need a credible opposition. I have a bad feeling about Patel, and some of the noises she's making, and where they can logically lead. But Labour is sitting at the back eating glue and trying to push crayons up its nose.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Trouble is we need a credible opposition. I have a bad feeling about Patel, and some of the noises she's making, and where they can logically lead. But Labour is sitting at the back eating glue and trying to push crayons up its nose.
Absolutely we need a credible opposition. It's not Labour, though.
 
Innocent enough, before he died, to have hidden his wealth away to ensure that his family and not the tax man got the lot.

Gentlemen - and other genders - the whole system has not shifted to the Left.

The media narrative has been hijacked and shifted to the Left but the people in the real world have stayed where they were and always have been in this country: slightly Left-of-centre, in that they believe in free education, a welfare state, the NHS and so on. These are the people now being branded XRW.

If the Labour Party has capitulated to loons, then that's because it's a shadow - indeed, a mockery - of what it once was. That's not our concern. Let it eat itself. The answer will be at the ballot box.

The same applies to the MSM and the BBC. Woke gobshítery on the telly and in the media does not mean that the country has lurched to the Left.

80-seat majority.

It just means that the traditional media channels have been usurped.

So stop saying it.


I'm obliged to disagree, especially with the brainwashing of our youth in Marxist universities and TV shows, as well as the ever growing number of immigrants who are naturally on the far left (when it suits them).

Just read the Facebook comments section from the Telegraph/guardian/BBC/Times or even your local rag. The extreme left are akin to the 1930s Nazis with their group think and cancellation culture, which is certainly dangerous enough to destroy people financially and end their careers.

The people speaking out against this bs seem to be getting fewer, primarily because they're of the older generation and gradually dying off, but also because they're getting replaced by the next boatload of Labour voters.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm obliged to disagree, especially with the brainwashing of our youth in Marxist universities and TV shows, as well as the ever growing number of immigrants who are naturally on the far left (when it suits them).

Just read the Facebook comments section from the Telegraph/guardian/BBC/Times or even your local rag. The extreme left are akin to the 1930s Nazis with their group think and cancellation culture, which is certainly dangerous enough to destroy people financially and end their careers.

The people speaking out against this bs seem to be getting fewer, primarily because they're of the older generation and gradually dying off, but also because they're getting replaced by the next boatload of Labour voters.
The people speaking out are getting fewer because of the levels of vitriol, up to and including death threats, that they get on social media.
 

Oyibo

LE
He held onto his core beliefs, many of which I happen to disagree with. He served as a cabinet member in different governments, under different leaders. He is widely respected for his intellect and his written political works.
Benn was never afraid to change his position on a range of topics. As energy minister, he supported nuclear power as affordable and safe. When he revised how expensive and dangerous it had become, he turned against its use in all forms.
His views on membership of the EU never really changed at all. He saw the direction it was taking and rightly challenged it, as undemocratic and feeding power without accountability.
Above all, he was a gentleman who did not bluff, whether he was debating in parliament, or in the media. Benn was always on top of his brief.
The only other politician of his time who comes close was Robin Cook. He resigned because his ideals were challenged by taking the country into a war he did not believe in.
Apart from refusing to get involved in the Vietnam war, Harold Wilson’s left-leaning advocacy was as miserable as any other.
I had to add that because I am still saddened by the loss of John Smith, at a time when the country needed him most, and I’m not a supporter of the idealism of the left. The fact remains that only the labour party have provided such exceptional probity and leadership, when the political ethos I follow has not done so.
The statesmanship can be argued by better folk than me, but it’s a refection of our society in recent history, that so many good men have been of the left leaning political vein. We seem to have lost considerable leadership qualities at the heart of British politics.

Personally I though Robin Cooke was okay as Foreign Minister.

But he f*cked up big time by replacing a huge portrait of a Maharaja (colonial overtones) in his private office with one of Oliver Cromwell... Just before a visit by Bertie Ahern, the Taoiseach at the time.

Bertie was, obviously, not impressed. So I'm not sure I would call Robin Cooke was a 'statesman'. Though if he did it on purpose I'd gladly go on the piss with him.
 

skeetstar

War Hero
Personally I though Robin Cooke was okay as Foreign Minister.

But he f*cked up big time by replacing a huge portrait of a Maharaja (colonial overtones) in his private office with one of Oliver Cromwell... Just before a visit by Bertie Ahern, the Taoiseach at the time.

Bertie was, obviously, not impressed. So I'm not sure I would call Robin Cooke was a 'statesman'. Though if he did it on purpose I'd gladly go on the piss with him.
Cook's just gone up in my estimation..
 

Oyibo

LE
Cook's just gone up in my estimation..

My preferred scenario, given that Cooke is blind, is that his minions replaced the picture and told him that the replacement was of a famous figure in Irish history.

If that were the case, the minions achieved 'God Status'.

(I think I am drifting away from 'centrism here.)
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
My preferred scenario, given that Cooke is blind, is that his minions replaced the picture and told him that the replacement was of a famous figure in Irish history.

If that were the case, the minions achieved 'God Status'.

(I think I am drifting away from 'centrism here.)
You're thinking of David Blunkett.
 
My preferred scenario, given that Cooke is blind, is that his minions replaced the picture and told him that the replacement was of a famous figure in Irish history.
Cook wasn't blind but he was disabled.

He was ginger.
 

Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
Just read the Facebook comments section from the Telegraph/guardian/BBC/Times or even your local rag.

That's precisely the points I've been making. The people speaking out on these social media platforms are the minorities on the wings.

Out of all my FB "acquaintances" there's maybe one or two who ever bother to comment on these articles. Normal people simply aren't bothered if Tesco want to promote an ad featuring two gay men or the BBC posts a snippet about what the NHS chiefs say. They'll just read it and make their own mind up and move on. Or they'll not even bother having it on their newsfeed in the first place and simply use it to post pictures of their dinner or pint of beer to show they're drinking tonight.

What you're doing is reading the comments of social justice warriors virtue signalling and the occasional bigots arguing and convincing yourself this represents society.

It's an echo-chamber for the whiney at best.

People are increasingly turning off to the BBC, MSM et al and searching their own media on YouTube and other platforms. You talk of the young being led by Marxist unis - they don't watch TV either. They watch Squid Games on Netflix and influencers on Insta. And even if they do buy the radical left's messages, most of them tend to have a change of heart when they get their first proper pay packet and realise how much of it is taken to fund the idle, the sick, the OAPs and the next lot of young scrotes behind them who are already telling them how out of touch they are with the "yoof".
 
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