The rifle match

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by Fireplace, May 19, 2017.

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  1. ca.1965 - Shoeburyness, 26 Medium Regiment (RA). Our rifle team from RAF Croughton were invited down to shoot. We were using the M-16. On one course of fire, we zeroed in our weapons then backed up a considerable distance. As I recall, the drill was to adjust sights then run forward, drop into a prone position and open fire.

    ADDED: That sighting doesn't read right.

    All went well until dropping into prone, when one of our men tripped, did a somersault, sort of recovered and fired a short burst.

    He'd involuntarily flicked the lever from safe, past fire, to auto.

    It cost points, but everyone was impressed with the way he handled it


    And that brings to mind your falling plate targets. We hadn't experience these before.

    The host team went first, and it all look straight forward.

    We were using M-1 Garands for this event. God alone know where those came from since they hadn't been a standard in the inventory "forever."

    Plates set up for us and on the command "fire" we opened up. What's this? Every now and again a plate would fall over but far too few for the number of rounds we were firing.

    The Range Office called "cease fire" and we went forward to discover many of the plate still standing had very neat and shiny .30" holes through them.

    I had notice the ammo we were given - again from an unknown source - had black tipped bullets - AP ball!


    We were allowed to fire both the Bren and Stirling by our hosts. I have drooled at the sight of a Bren ever since.
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  2. Thanks Granddad.... I said thanks GRANDAD
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  3. Any time.
  4. Sure you weren't using PIAT's ?
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  5. I heard of the Yanks with AP ball versus the falling plates incident sometime in the late 1970s. It was an army urban myth that was as implausible as all the others. I think the version I heard involved 5.56mm, but I'm not sure, it was a very long time ago. Maybe it was a regular event, with AP ammo being issued for giggles.

    And it's Sterling. Firing Stirling is a great idea, but the Scots Nationalists might get upset.
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  6. The US had the tendancy of issuing AP rather moreso than ball with the M1, so it wouldn't surprise me if "random" ammo that turned up was AP.
  7. I do not remember looking at the head stamp. It's possible it was leftover from the late unpleasantness. And I still cannot explain the presence of M-1 Garands since the USAF transitioned from M-1 carbines to the M-16..

  8. I imagine that, if the USAF team learnt that the shooting comp was "full bore" (ie not .30 carbine or 5.56mm), they'd have to bid through their Q system for some loan rifles. Then it'd be down to whatever they found in the nearest depot. Perhaps M14s were not available, but there was a pile of Garands sat there for cermonial use or CMP sale. The CMP aspect would be an obvious link to a shooting comp requirement.
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  9. Edward I wouldn't have
  10. For those not familiar with the M1 Garand and the 30-06 rd, it has about 15% more muzzle energy than 7.62 Nato. I suspect that even bog std ball might have made a hole in a steel plate.
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  11. Will you please stop utterly ruining this thread with facts and reality
  12. .30-06 was out the system so can be forgotten.
    M1 ball was hardly used, so we can forget that too
    M2 ball: 150gn @ 2740 fps = 2500 ft-lb
    M2 AP (possibly the most common fired): 166gn (ish) @ 2715 fps : 2717 ft-lb

    7.62x51 NATO ball l2A2: 144gn @ 2770 = 2450 ft-lb. US M80 ball is about the same ME.

    So M2 ball has 2% more ME, and M2 AP has 11% more ME than 7.62mm L2A2.
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  13. RAF Croughton is but10 minutes drive from my palatial abode, as it happens.

    Did you know the airfield was used to train [Brit] glider pilots for the invasion of Europe in 1944?
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  14. I did know that. A longtime resident of Evenley gave me a typescript - long since mislaid - that claimed RAF Cro was originally named RAF Evenley. I have never been able to confirm that.

    Next time you're near Evenley, please stop at The Red Lion for a pint hoisted generally in my direction. I was there sometimes seven evenings a week - only because there weren't eight evenings available.

    You live in a beautiful part of the country!!
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