The Remainer march in London today.

Well the great remoaner, Clegg, has jumped ship. Has he seen the light and come to the conclusion that remain is now a lost cause, we have run out of time for referendum 2 and probably a GE by end March? His European score card was hard to trump and he must have regarded himself destined for a very big EU, may be even number uno, job. Now he has departed to live in the Great Satan land of the left, no problems with work permit also? Will he miss the NHS?
 
I understand that the demo was about remaining in th EU or is it still asking for another referendum? I don't have a finger firmly on the pulse of uk politics but based on common sense I believe that the majotrity (the nose down, work hard, nuclear family) would vote to leave as the moral majority in many democracies are middle of the road sensible citizens. Just look at the USA the majority are just middle of the road middle class workers, the extreme left/right elements are generally the squeaky wheel. The LGBT sector is only about 1% of the population, the politically correct nazis have about the same representation (not the sheep that blindly comply and enforce) modern politics have shifted to popularism taking up any lame cause in a vain attempt to stand out from the herd of simpering wishy washy frightened sicophants.
 
At this point I don't know which I find more irritating - the paranoia & hyperbole of hardcore remain supporters or the paranoia & hyperbole of hardcore leave supporters.

Nearly half the electorate voted to remain & a portion of 'leave' voters might not have voted the way they did if it had been a referendum on the terms of the final deal. It's a bit much to imply that approximately half the electorate is some sort of 5th column. I don't want another referendum to happen but wanting a referendum on the final deal is a reasonable position. What are the reasons for thinking that it's unreasonable? That a referendum already happened? Firstly, things change & new information comes to light. Who argued that, in light of the electorate's endorsement of the party that won the, say, 1997 general election, there should have been no subsequent general elections? Secondly, the previous referendum wasn't on the same question. Thirdly, a referendum on the final deal would give people the opportunity to know exactly what they're voting for.

The basis for objecting to another referendum seems to boil down to the possibility that a majority of the electorate may vote against what leave supporters want. Well, as I & many other leave supporters pointed out last time round, bad luck, that's democracy.

As someone who hopes the UK leaves the EU with the greatest possible success (leading to more nations leaving) I've been very disappointed with the poor quality of argument for the leave position, much of which being unserious, inconsistent (e.g., goal-post moving), straw-manning (e.g., portraying the highly technical concerns voiced by economists as 'fearmongering about famine & pestilence'), demonology & snarling that is guaranteed to persuade absolutely no one. If the 2nd referendum does happen & the outcome is a message to Brussels along the lines of 'we changed our minds' a lot of the blame for that outcome should lie with my fellow leave supporters.
I think many of those who voted leave did not have any idea of what the EU and the UKs place in the EU is/has/will have had.

I even heard some of them saying on radio 4 so it must be real :), Oh we voted leave so we are out now? this was about 2 days after the vote.

How many believed the Battle Bus with the XXX million a week for the NHS?

now , maybe a 1 year wait to see.

Also on Radio 4 this weekend was a reporter who has been working in the EU HQ for over ten years who said ... something like...

After reporting from here for ten years , I have never known any agreement viv a vis trade take less than seven years to pass.

So 2023 anyone?

The north will lose out big time when we leave.
 
Oh did I? I suppose that would be because of the overwhelming number of 7th day adventist´s and Scientologists that are queuing up to come here...

This is the kind of cognitive dissonance that continues to amaze me, that some people can be so ignorant of some very tangible facts and utterly fail to dive deeper into the details so they just remain stuck in the cycle of thoughts - ¨Migrants good, man say no migrants, man bad¨

A few years a go it was an uphill battle to get people to call them migrants, before then they were refugees. At least some progress has been made to properly identify these people. A few more years people will have the courage to come out and say that they are all muslims and that this might not be a good thing for the country.
It will need people with the power to actually do something about it to say this isn't a good thing for the country.
Chances of that happening? Not even negligible.
 
Yes the “Country” did through the various elected governments of the day. The British government could have influenced the direction of the EU at any stage but it mostly did not.

As for UKIP. The joke that keeps on giving eh! A single issue political party that can’t get its act together on anything including any sensible leadership figure to run it!
UKIP are no longer a single issue party, they have become the people protest party. Currently they re championing freedom of speech and equality for all (no special treatment for certain groups prone to mass gang raping children for example)
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
And now the dear Lord Mayor of London (his Khanship, not Dick Whittington) has chimed in with his views on Youff having a second say - another tit whose grasp of democracy is deficient....
Ahem, Mayor of London only, no Lordship, that's saved for the Lord Mayor of London, who is Mayor of the City of London only!
 
Looks like a classic astro-turfing event to me. The Remainers assert that all manner of implausible calamity will immediately befall the UK should Brexit happen as the majority voted for. Given that the UK is the world's fifth or sixth largest economy in it's own right and currently buys more from the rest of the EU than the reverse and is one of only 3 nett contributors to the EU's coffers, the EU have a clear vested interest in putting the frighteners on the UK voters. By any means available.
But is that aided by the fact it can see into 27 countries without any customs barriers ?
 
If the PM had the spine to say to the EU several months or more ago "from midnight on such & such a date we are out & we will introduce tariffs on all EU manufactured imports & until we & you can enter into meaningful discussions, do not expect to receive another penny from the UK", we wouldn't be in a worse position than we are now.
And it may have made the EU sit up & take notice
As far as the Irish border goes, once (if ever) we're out of the EU, it's up to us what border we decide to have.

The problem of course is that the PM is a closet remainer & is totally unsuitable to be leading the country at this time.
 
If the PM had the spine to say to the EU several months or more ago "from midnight on such & such a date we are out & we will introduce tariffs on all EU manufactured imports & until we & you can enter into meaningful discussions, do not expect to receive another penny from the UK", we wouldn't be in a worse position than we are now.
And it may have made the EU sit up & take notice
As far as the Irish border goes, once (if ever) we're out of the EU, it's up to us what border we decide to have.

The problem of course is that the PM is a closet remainer & is totally unsuitable to be leading the country at this time.
Wow! I hadn't realised it would be that simple.
Have you written to the government about it? I'm sure they'd appreciate your naivety.
 
Just wondering if we can send all of the migrant Syrian and Somali builders and engineers to build a wall along the Irish border....
 
Wow! I hadn't realised it would be that simple.
Have you written to the government about it? I'm sure they'd appreciate your naivety.
My apologies for having an opinion. Next you'll be claiming I don't like Europeans.
This could have been a lot simpler & easier than it has been.
All we've had is grandstanding from both sides but mainly from the EU side who can see their power ebbing away. That is their real fear.
But no doubt something will be cobbled together at the eleventh hour so that all involved can claim to be hero's (or heroines).
 
The objective of the EU has always been a federal United States of Europe governed from Brussels and essentially run by France / Germany / Belgium. This since day one although never publicised.

Indeed I would agree that the federalists are more than somewhat worried that Britain escaping the EU will trigger an exodus. Two of my friends have recently visited Greece and the Greeks generally want out from the economic yoke of Brussels, and many Italians would also like to leave, as they see themselves being dominated by Germany again.

I am stocking up on Pringles and Beer for when the UK actually leaves (assuming that we actually manage to escape the tar baby).
 
If the PM had the spine to say to the EU several months or more ago "from midnight on such & such a date we are out & we will introduce tariffs on all EU manufactured imports & until we & you can enter into meaningful discussions, do not expect to receive another penny from the UK", we wouldn't be in a worse position than we are now.
And it may have made the EU sit up & take notice
As far as the Irish border goes, once (if ever) we're out of the EU, it's up to us what border we decide to have.

The problem of course is that the PM is a closet remainer & is totally unsuitable to be leading the country at this time.
@exbleep If we were honest with ourselves a Trump type **** you approach would have us in much better shape at the table now
 
How many day sacks dumped behind the bench do they need between them? Do they hold communication devices and computers with SJW filters to make sure that they give the right messages?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
I hate to agree with you but the overton window has never been further left. If the current Labour party win GE then we are in trouble. I have heard quiet rumours that plans for a coup d'état have been discussed but are of course very unlikely. We have a very real danger of socialists gaining power and that will lead to our ruin as evidenced by every other time it has ever been tried before.

This is, in part, why TM is still in power however it´s really not working having her in charge and I sincerely hope that she is gone by the end of the month. I would put Rees-Mogg and Johnson in charge of Brexit, at least they wont be pushed around and will be tougher on the EU.
This fecking idiot, Owen Jones is a major Labour campaigner and has brought socialism back into the mainstream for the masses, he has also been discussing communism as if it is some misunderstood bit of fun and games.
This is the scale of the problem that we face for the future.
You might want to listen carefully to the dialogue in the vid you’ve linked to.

If, as you state, the current Labour party wins a GE it will be because the majority of the population voted for them. That means that the policies of the current Labour party are more appealing than anything offered by the Tories or any other political party. So why do you state that “we” will be in trouble? What sort of trouble? How will Socialists being elected lead to “our” ruin? And why should there be plans hatched for a coup d'état if the Labour party has been democratically elected?

Many of the policies advocated by the Labour party have formed an integral part of the political landscape in the Scandinavian countries and Germany for decades. So how come they aren’t “ruined”?

What will happen if the Labour party is elected and then manages to successfully implement many of its policies – policies that will greatly benefit the majority of the population? What will you do then? Still decry them as destroyers of the country?

I believe you’re painting much too dramatic a picture of what might happen because you don’t fully understand what Socialist policies really are, let alone what Communism is actually about.

MsG
 
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