The reality of Herrick. You personal kit and UK training.

we went out and played even more fast and loose with the rules
Different units, different rules.

I sh!t you not, it was a commonplace under the particular CO who 'led' 2RRF from a golf course near Ballykinler, for the RSM to turn up at the tailgate of a Chinook disgorging shagged out filthy wet troops fresh back from a few days of hiking around S Armagh, clad in his ginger suit, shiny drill boots and pace stick, and dish out to those just landed a collective apoplectic bollocking for being untidy.

It was, at best, utterly bizarre.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
If this is the WW2 line of conversation continuing from a day or two back - there wouldn't have been kit to buy on the wartime open market!!
Indeed, if HM the King gave it to you it was generally enough. I dont doubt some officer wore their own stuff but generally troops wouldn't need or want to upset the apple cart unless they were in Italy where Monty fostered a relaxed regime.


. . . . and given that there was an inter-Nation boundary between Monty's Army Group and the Septics further to the SE, you'd have to be a looong way from the front line for any of that there pilfering and liberating !!
It wouldn't stop them borrowing from other units, retreating enemy or recently liberated natives. However there were many occasions in late 44 and 45 where US units were very close by our own and Canadian troops who generally seemed to get better kit!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Different units, different rules.

I sh!t you not, it was a commonplace under the particular CO who 'led' 2RRF from a golf course near Ballykinler, for the RSM to turn up at the tailgate of a Chinook disgorging shagged out filthy wet troops fresh back from a few days of hiking around S Armagh, clad in his ginger suit, shiny drill boots and pace stick, and dish out to those just landed a collective apoplectic bollocking for being untidy.

It was, at best, utterly bizarre.
One has to assume it was to increase the rates of PVR without offering redundancies?
 
Different units, different rules.

I sh!t you not, it was a commonplace under the particular CO who 'led' 2RRF from a golf course near Ballykinler, for the RSM to turn up at the tailgate of a Chinook disgorging shagged out filthy wet troops fresh back from a few days of hiking around S Armagh, clad in his ginger suit, shiny drill boots and pace stick, and dish out to those just landed a collective apoplectic bollocking for being untidy.

It was, at best, utterly bizarre.
Good for retention that :rolleyes:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
You'd think that Recce would be excused the usual Bn shenanigans, but no in bed after a five day OP and the Pln Stores sgt gets us up after 4 hours back in camp to dust his shelves. Told the Pln WO that if this continued I'd be better off in a rifle company making brews for blokes I respected.
A new storeman was recruited sharpish!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
[RUPERT]Oh really? Why, exactly?[/RUPERT]
(Wah Shield up) Op Banner Recce was adminned by the Bn but came under Bde through TCG. A big sell to attract those not wanting to stag on in a sanger was the freedom from the Bn shiny bums tyranny when in Camp.
OC HQ coy was nominally in charge and hated it when we told him "sorry sir I cant answer that question" when collecting work ticket signatures from the Ops room.
In fact it took the CO a year before being invited into a briefing for an Op and he had been involved in setting up the concept in the mid seventies. He was rightly proud of the reputation we had earned in that first year, mind you seeing some of the 4 month Bns struggle with their recce plns it wasn't difficult to shine.
The fun bits were attending an APWT as part of HQ Coy and rocking up with cammed up weapons, The provo staff freaked at that one. Acting as Bde ARFLO was fantastic fun, having Young Officer stand up because they didn't have a clue who you were and you being the nice bloke and putting them at ease.
 
(Wah Shield up) Op Banner Recce was adminned by the Bn but came under Bde through TCG. A big sell to attract those not wanting to stag on in a sanger was the freedom from the Bn shiny bums tyranny when in Camp.
OC HQ coy was nominally in charge and hated it when we told him "sorry sir I cant answer that question" when collecting work ticket signatures from the Ops room.
In fact it took the CO a year before being invited into a briefing for an Op and he had been involved in setting up the concept in the mid seventies. He was rightly proud of the reputation we had earned in that first year, mind you seeing some of the 4 month Bns struggle with their recce plns it wasn't difficult to shine.
The fun bits were attending an APWT as part of HQ Coy and rocking up with cammed up weapons, The provo staff freaked at that one. Acting as Bde ARFLO was fantastic fun, having Young Officer stand up because they didn't have a clue who you were and you being the nice bloke and putting them at ease.
If you'd said "COP" rather than Recce, the Op BANNER Rupert might have cottoned on, if only because that command relationship only developed post-1979 (estimated), after which time COP was the only descriptor I heard. Before that, my experience was that Recce Pls in NI were Bn assets, pure and simple.
 
I hope the camelbacks have gotten a lot better!!

If it isn't opsec, is it still 4 mags or 6 now for the IW? If you could, would your carry more in mags?

And I agree about the targets - we need to teach our young 'uns how to spot cammed up targets in good cover. It'll be a matter of practise.
The last time I was in the sand, was the 70’s and everything we needed we had to carry with us. Mind you we had regular Skyvan support as well as the odd 4 wheeler and occasionally the Air Despatch mob. Once we were out in the Negen that was it so 1st port of call was always ammunition and fooking lots of it. Fortunately we had a lot of gash kit such as claymores, mortars and the like (the Sultan wasn’t a tight fisted barsteward as I recall. We also had local troops who as far as I remember didn’t feel the need to slot western toms.
However talking with toms who did gulf 1 and/or 2 and Afghan, the kit and amounts of what they needed was enough, so can’t argue with that. However didn’t the lad who won the VC (Guards Tom) had a bayonet fixed?

At the end of the day it appears that modern day troops didn’t need to be kitted out the way we once were. So long as we never hear again of those RMP’s who were issued with just 50 rounds a man, I think that back then we would never have gone out with just 50 rounds and probably refused to go out. I also think that any Rupert who asked us to be that stupid wouldn’t have lasted 5 mins.
 
A comment that stuck with me back in the 90’s. Was that it was all well and good exercising on Dartmoor wearing Scarpa’s, Yeti gaiters, Arktis chest rig, windproof jackets and Vulcan bergans etc.
But if you are on ops for any length of time and any of that stuff goes U/S or rots off you, you will be resupplied with standard G1098 kit. So you’re more effective in the long term if you train with it.

The argument made sense, especially as the ‘Gucci kit’ cost money that was better spent down Union Street. :)
 
So long as we never hear again of those RMP’s who were issued with just 50 rounds a man, I think that back then we would never have gone out with just 50 rounds and probably refused to go out. I also think that any Rupert who asked us to be that stupid wouldn’t have lasted 5 mins.
It was a SNCO who made that decision - contrary to the orders given by an officer.
 
It was a SNCO who made that decision - contrary to the orders given by an officer.
Unfortunately we are going to see shit like that all the time. On the majority of occasions pure luck will mean there are no dire consequences. Every once in a while troops will suffer. The Army will shrug it’s shoulders and carry on normal jogging.
 
A comment that stuck with me back in the 90’s. Was that it was all well and good exercising on Dartmoor wearing Scarpa’s, Yeti gaiters, Arktis chest rig, windproof jackets and Vulcan bergans etc.
But if you are on ops for any length of time and any of that stuff goes U/S or rots off you, you will be resupplied with standard G1098 kit. So you’re more effective in the long term if you train with it.

The argument made sense, especially as the ‘Gucci kit’ cost money that was better spent down Union Street. :)
On the other hand, a lot of kit suddenly appears or is bought when something kicks off. Look at the scrabble by the MOD, not individuals, to buy Berghaus bergens, duvet jackets, etc for the Falklands. Similarly, look at the uplift in quality of kit as a result of ops in recent years.

An ARRSE post in antiquity described a subaltern who exercised on Salisbury Plain only in issue kit as a matter of principle. He was casevaced with hypothermia then cashiered for proving said point.
 

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