The reality of Herrick. You personal kit and UK training.

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#1
A few of us were chatting over this the other day.

Is there anyone else, recently completed a Herrick as frontline combat, (Actual in the ditches fighting, not just mincing in a FOB) whom has realised webbing is shite, and that all you need now is two mag pouches three deep, a gren pouch, med pouch and camel back?

Honestly, I had a glimmer of it on Telic, but Herrick just rammed home how much shite we load ourselves out with when doing UK training. I know train hard fight easy, but having a pouch for your ******* jetboil / mess tin? I didn't use a mess tin once in seven months. That's what the foil bag is for ffs.

Even with my bergan, I had one pair of trousers and a sleeping bag, and as many socks as I could fit in it. With feet getting immersed at least three times a day, foot rot was a real risk. You wore the same pants for weeks on end, the same t-shirt until it offended even yourself. People might say bad drills, but when you're carrying the world in batteries, scoff and water, **** clean clothes and personal hygiene (Feet and crotch aside)

Also, if I ever go on a range again where I can see what I'm shooting at, I'm going to start shouting 'LIES! LIES! YOU CANNOT SEE THEM!! THEY ARE GHOSTS THAT COME AND GO WITH THE WIND!!"

Our training program really needs to change, massively. **** the war that's never going to happen. Lets train for the one that is. Seven months and I had a physical eyes on the target eh, twice, maybe three times. Otherwise you're just pointing where everyone else is and praying.

Meh.
 
R

randomgary

Guest
#3
I had three magazine pouches and a small command pouch for binos map and compass! No leg pouches or man bags or any of that caper! The only thing I bought for the whole tour was the command pouch
 
#4
MrBane said:
A few of us were chatting over this the other day.

Is there anyone else, recently completed a Herrick as frontline combat, (Actual in the ditches fighting, not just mincing in a FOB) whom has realised webbing is shite, and that all you need now is two mag pouches three deep, a gren pouch, med pouch and camel back?

Honestly, I had a glimmer of it on Telic, but Herrick just rammed home how much shite we load ourselves out with when doing UK training. I know train hard fight easy, but having a pouch for your * jetboil / mess tin? I didn't use a mess tin once in seven months. That's what the foil bag is for ffs.

Even with my bergan, I had one pair of trousers and a sleeping bag, and as many socks as I could fit in it. With feet getting immersed at least three times a day, foot rot was a real risk. You wore the same pants for weeks on end, the same t-shirt until it offended even yourself. People might say bad drills, but when you're carrying the world in batteries, scoff and water, * clean clothes and personal hygiene (Feet and crotch aside)

Also, if I ever go on a range again where I can see what I'm shooting at, I'm going to start shouting 'LIES! LIES! YOU CANNOT SEE THEM!! THEY ARE GHOSTS THAT COME AND GO WITH THE WIND!!"

Our training program really needs to change, massively. * the war that's never going to happen. Lets train for the one that is. Seven months and I had a physical eyes on the target eh, twice, maybe three times. Otherwise you're just pointing where everyone else is and praying.

Meh.
My bold. You're wearing pants? There's a few grams you can save yourself straight off.

If you can sort out the 'a war/the war' conundrum then good luck to you.
 
#6
Oddly enough, last time i was up in the brecon beacons in January I tend to like to carry more than just sox. I decent doss bag and warm kit can come in quite handy for that sort of things.

Not that i carried it in Iraq in August because I didn't need to.

It's kind of horses for courses kind of thing.
 
#8
MrBane said:
Also, if I ever go on a range again where I can see what I'm shooting at, I'm going to start shouting 'LIES! LIES! YOU CANNOT SEE THEM!! THEY ARE GHOSTS THAT COME AND GO WITH THE WIND!!"
:D :D :D

Quality! Maybe the target for all ranges should just be to hit something that looks a bit suspicious in the butts! And as you walk to the point the range warden should randomly hit one of you in the knee with a cricket bat to simulate an IED.
 
#9
tubbs1970 said:
On the topic of weight/unused kit, can i ask who/how many of you have actually used your leatherman/gerber in the field... ? And when needed, has it been up to the job (especially with reference to screw driver bits & pliers)?
I used my G10 issued leatherman on a daily basis on Ops and was more than capable at completing any task I set about with it, be it opening compo boxes to fixing wagons.

The pliers are better than the snipe nosed ones in the issued toolbox and the screwdriver never once failed to do its job.

One of the best things I have been issued and is still in daily use in camp.

But then again I am just a humble spanner w@nker.
 
#10
Wee_Jock_Poopong said:
tubbs1970 said:
On the topic of weight/unused kit, can i ask who/how many of you have actually used your leatherman/gerber in the field... ? And when needed, has it been up to the job (especially with reference to screw driver bits & pliers)?
I used my G10 issued leatherman on a daily basis on Ops and was more than capable at completing any task I set about with it, be it opening compo boxes to fixing wagons.

The pliers are better than the snipe nosed ones in the issued toolbox and the screwdriver never once failed to do its job.

One of the best things I have been issued and is still in daily use in camp.

But then again I am just a humble spanner w@nker.
Your just a w@nker full stop :D
 
#11
Ref. gerber/leatherman

Wee_Jock_Poopong said:
The pliers are better than the snipe nosed ones in the issued toolbox and the screwdriver never once failed to do its job.

One of the best things I have been issued and is still in daily use in camp.

But then again I am just a humble spanner w@nker.
Cheers. Spanner w@nker you & me both.

I'm currently using a combination of a victorinox equestrian knife (http://www.tripneeds.com/images/08883-equestrian.jpg), a driver bit set (http://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/product.php?productid=374&cat=259&page=1), a small pair of pliers with good wire cutters incorperated and a mini adjustable (upto 14mm).

A fair bit more weight & 4 seperate items - i do like them and think it gives me greater function, but not convinced it's better than a single multi tool yet.

(to MrBane, the original poster; i can almost hear you saying 'wtf ???', but just trying to figure out best package for my webbing - Herrick14 hopefully. Cheers)
 
#12
MrBane said:
A few of us were chatting over this the other day.

Is there anyone else, recently completed a Herrick as frontline combat, (Actual in the ditches fighting, not just mincing in a FOB) whom has realised webbing is shite, and that all you need now is two mag pouches three deep, a gren pouch, med pouch and camel back?

Honestly, I had a glimmer of it on Telic, but Herrick just rammed home how much shite we load ourselves out with when doing UK training. I know train hard fight easy, but having a pouch for your * jetboil / mess tin? I didn't use a mess tin once in seven months. That's what the foil bag is for ffs.

Even with my bergan, I had one pair of trousers and a sleeping bag, and as many socks as I could fit in it. With feet getting immersed at least three times a day, foot rot was a real risk. You wore the same pants for weeks on end, the same t-shirt until it offended even yourself. People might say bad drills, but when you're carrying the world in batteries, scoff and water, * clean clothes and personal hygiene (Feet and crotch aside)

Also, if I ever go on a range again where I can see what I'm shooting at, I'm going to start shouting 'LIES! LIES! YOU CANNOT SEE THEM!! THEY ARE GHOSTS THAT COME AND GO WITH THE WIND!!"

Our training program really needs to change, massively. * the war that's never going to happen. Lets train for the one that is. Seven months and I had a physical eyes on the target eh, twice, maybe three times. Otherwise you're just pointing where everyone else is and praying.

Meh.
well said. totally true! maybe when the younger blokes start filtering through the ranks in a few years time things will change.
 
#13
I hope the camelbacks have gotten a lot better!!

If it isn't opsec, is it still 4 mags or 6 now for the IW? If you could, would your carry more in mags?

And I agree about the targets - we need to teach our young 'uns how to spot cammed up targets in good cover. It'll be a matter of practise.
 
#14
What sort of loads are the guys carrying then on a 24 hour patrol then? Kitwise?

My father asked me recently why on footage of the fighting the guys are carrying bergans etc at times. He mentioned something called the Alpine method where you just carry the bare minimum, so you can move alot faster.

I mentioned need for medical, ammo, food and water etc and that bergans might be due to needing to spend further out in the field.

So what sort of things are the men carrying?
 
#15
There was an paper written by the booties after their initial foray in 2001 ish and they made the point that it was very difficult to catch aman in a dishdash with an AK and a couple of mags when you were carrying more enough kit to reach the South Pole. IIRC they made very similar recommendations. Think it was in the British Army Review.
 
#17
i read a study one time (i think it was by Richard Holmes) about the weight soldiers carry into combat, it went right back to Roman legionaires. What it basically said was that the weight has always been roughly the same for light role dismounted troops approx 60-70% of body weight carried CEMO and about 40-50% in CEFO.

It said that once a new technological development that lessens the load of a soldier comes along another one introduces a new bit of kit to carry.

There are obviously exceptions to this - vehicle mounted ops etc.

Speaking for myself when i was going out on patrol (foot) and i thought i could carry more i did i.e. another 50 rds for the gpmg/2 rounds for the 60mm/an extra bandolier of UGL rds/ take a spare battery for the electronics etc etc

I don't think i ever carried anything that wasn't 'battle winning kit'
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
GoodIdeaAtTheTime said:
There was an paper written by the booties after their initial foray in 2001 ish and they made the point that it was very difficult to catch aman in a dishdash with an AK and a couple of mags when you were carrying more enough kit to reach the South Pole. IIRC they made very similar recommendations. Think it was in the British Army Review.
Didn't Fally state on here after 3 Paras first tour they were encouraging the lads to strip right down to bare basics even getting them to ditch Body Armour on occasion
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#19
On Herrick 6 my webbing consisted of a mini-me pouch on one side and one set of ammo pouches on the other for my grenades.

The GPMG guys had their webbing but the pouches were just filled with link so they had more readily available without having to go into their daysack.

As for the rest of the lads some used webbing but most just stuck to chest rigs etc.

Even carrying the basic kit I.E. Body Armour, Helmet, Weapon (Mini-me), Pistol, 900 link, 2 grenades and enough water to last for a patrol (most of ours were recce in and out type patrols so re-supplies whilst in the green zone weren't practical or needed.) I was easily carrying 60lbs +

I remember reading somewhere that throughout the ages Infantry soldiers have always carried about the same weights, it's just that in these modern times we can carry more kit at the same weight.

Should we try to phase out webbing and move to a more basic chestrig type layout or to something similar to the US style? That's for peopel who get paid more than me, but if we did would we not need to change our SOPs with regards to resup etc or we'd just end up carrying the same amount of stuff just in our daysacks instead of in our webbing.
 
#20
MrBane said:
we load ourselves out with when doing UK training. I know train hard fight easy.
Nail on the head smack in the middle of your post.

train carrying what you are told, but when deployed you pack as the situation/climate dictates.

Training in a pair of flip flops, pants, shorts, floppy hat and carrying a rocket pouch with 18 pairs of socks and webbing full of ammo will do you bugger all good if you get short notice deployment to the falklands or somewhere else pish wet through, freezing cold with no air resupply and having to tab everywhere due to the vehicles not being up to the terrain and then whinge constantly that your kits too heavy cos youve never trained wearing full kit and carrying a bergan with your doss bag, waterproofs, spare dry clothing, softee jacket & trousers, bivvie bag and you are starving because youve never had to use a hexi-stove and mess tins before.

train hard fight easy or train for the sunshine suffer everywhere else.
 

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