The quiet death of the Royal Canadian Navy

The thread title chosen by jim30 was perhaps a bit exaggerated. I believe that he hasn't posted in nearly a year, so I don't know what he would have to say about it now if he were able to.

The situation had started to turn around by the time that the thread was started 6 years ago. I gave a background history in a pair of posts starting here:

There are replacements in the pipeline for all of the RCN's major ships, aside from the submarines for which the plans are still tentative (replacements being due in the mid 2030s).
Thanks for that, I had forgotten that it was Jim30 who had posed the question, whatever his thoughts are about where the RCN are these days it is good to hear that there is an ongoing renewal process and that things are looking up.

The time this thread has been in existence just emphasises just how long and protracted the timescales are when it comes to naval procurement.
 

Yokel

LE
I wonder to what extent has Canada and the RCN suffered from the same political, media, and public opinion malaise that it seems all Western nations and navies have? I mean the assumption that everyone seems to have made in the post Cold War era that state adversaries were a thing of the past, and so were things like needing to worry about hostile submarines or aircraft?
 
I wonder to what extent has Canada and the RCN suffered from the same political, media, and public opinion malaise that it seems all Western nations and navies have? I mean the assumption that everyone seems to have made in the post Cold War era that state adversaries were a thing of the past, and so were things like needing to worry about hostile submarines or aircraft?
I covered the post Cold War history earlier, see the link that I posted in my previous response for details.

The issues raised in political debate at the time of that post and in the six years since have been focused on which party is most competent to deliver on the naval program. There is little or no debate on the plan itself, just on delivering it on time and on budget.
 
The RCN have started the process for replacing its submarines with new ones.
Navy kicks off long-anticipated push to replace Canada's beleaguered submarine fleet
"The CAF is establishing a Canadian patrol submarine project to inform timely governmental decision-making about a potential replacement class of submarines, and avoid any gap in submarine capability," navy spokesperson Lt.-Cmdr. Jordan Holder said.

"In order to enable timely decision-making at some future point regarding a replacement class of submarines and the avoidance of a gap in submarine capability, the CAF required a replacement project to be initiated this year."

There is no news beyond that, with no information on when, what, or how many. This will be a long term project, and I don't expect to see any solid details for a few years yet.
 
The second Arctic Offshore Patrol Vessel has been delivered to the RCN. It will be named HMCS Margaret Brooke later this year.
Canada Takes Delivery of Second AOPS, HMCS Margaret Brooke

Designed with a thick and robust hull, the ships will be able to operate in up to 120 cm of first-year sea ice, and will provide the Canadian Armed Forces with enhanced access and capability in the Arctic. With their considerable space to transport cargo and the capacity to embark a Cyclone helicopter, small vehicles, and deployable boats, the Harry DeWolf-class ships have the versatility to support a full range of RCN operations ...

The ship will remain at CFB Halifax Dockyard while post-acceptance and final preparation work is completed. The ship will be named this autumn and commission in autumn of 2022. Construction of additional ships in the class continues.

The second AOPS, the future HMCS Margaret Brooke, will be named in honour of the Royal Canadian Navy Nursing Sister Lieutenant-Commander Margaret, Martha Brooke, who was decorated for gallantry during the Second World War. The ship’s designation is AOPV 431.

The badge of the future HMCS Margaret Brooke features a rearing caribou symbolizing the sinking of the ferry SS Caribou, the wartime event during which Lieutenant-Commander Brooke displayed the courage for which she was decorated. Also to be noted is the shield symbolizing a career and a life in protection of others as well as the four-leaf clover, a personal symbol she carried with her all her life.

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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
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HMCS Harry DeWolf, the first of Canada's new OPVs, has made a transit across the Arctic. They are expected to arrive in Vancouver on Friday.
Royal Canadian Navy ship completes Northwest Passage journey for first time since 1954

Normally it is the Canadian Coast Guard who operate in the Arctic as they have the icebreaking ships for that, while the RCN tend to stick to the Atlantic and Pacific, only venturing into the Arctic for a few weeks at the end of the summer during minimum ice.

This is apparently the first RCN transit since 1954. The new OPVs are capable of ice breaking, although they are not dedicated icebreakers.

During part of the voyage they followed the route of the Franklin Expedition.

Here's a couple of photos taken during the voyage.

hmcs-harry-dewolf-northwest-passage.jpg



hmcs-harry-dewolf.jpg
 
I can't open these links. Is it about the smoking and the parody song, which you can read about and hear here?

I'm not sure why he chose to link them through Facebook (unless he's working for the RCN and is tracking your IP address :eek: ).

Here's the direct links.

Parody music video about navy officers sparked country-wide search for culprit

smoking_in_the_wardroom_3_37_1080p
 
The following came up in discussion in another thread and I thought I would link it here for future reference.
PROCUREMENT OF CANADA’S VICTORIA CLASS SUBMARINES Report of the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs

As the title suggests, this is a report on Canada's procurement of the Upholder / Victoria class submarines. It was published in April of 2005.

One of the items mentioned, and was already discussed on another thread, is that the belief that the cost of the submarines was offset against the lease of BATUS was incorrect. While such a barter deal with suggested, it never actually took place and there doesn't appear to have been a serious attempt at it.

My own suspicions is that this talk of a barter deal was a bit of deliberate misdirection to obscure the actual cost of the submarines and make them look cheaper than they actually were. If so, then it was apparently successful as the Commons defence committee were apparently indeed misled as the to the costs until the inquiry into the Chicoutimi fire caused people to take a closer look.


The report points out that none the less Canada got quite a deal on the submarines, having bought four nearly new Upholder class submarines for less money than Australia was paying for just one Collins class.

The purchase of the Upholder / Victorias was mainly driven by the need to replace the Oberons after the UK informed Canada (and Australia) that the supply of spare parts for them would be running out.

Canada had looked at Dutch Walrus and German Type 209 submarines, but the Upholders were favoured as they were larger and had longer range rather than being purely coastal defence submarines and there was a desire to use them in the North Atlantic and Pacific well away from Canada.

Overall, the report is probably not worth reading unless you are trying to pin down some specific detail involved in the acquisition. I think it is useful none the less to have it referenced here for future use.
 
It would be presumably of mutual benefit if the RCN joins the USN/RN/RAN in their submarine endeavours.

Nuclear power might be an issue, and the poke in the eye to France might be a problem for some Canadians (ie those in Quebec), but then again, opportunities like this don’t come round too often.
 
It would be presumably of mutual benefit if the RCN joins the USN/RN/RAN in their submarine endeavours.

Nuclear power might be an issue, and the poke in the eye to France might be a problem for some Canadians (ie those in Quebec), but then again, opportunities like this don’t come round too often.
The US were the ones who blocked Canada from buying nuclear submarines by vetoing a UK sale to Canada in the 1980s. This was over US-Canada territorial disputes in the Arctic.

As mentioned on the Australian thread, Canada have got new submarines pencilled in for some time in the mid 2030s. What Canada primarily desires in new submarines is something small enough to operate in the restricted waters of the Arctic Archipelago while also having enough endurance for useful operations under the ice. That means either the smallest nuclear submarine possible, or a long endurance AIP submarine.

This is a very different operating environment from what either the US or Australia are interested in. The latter two are mainly interested in very long distance operations in the Pacific.

At the rate the Japanese are currently pushing submarine technology they may have something far more suited to local conditions in Canada than the behemoths the US are planning on.
 
The Parliamentary Budget Office estimate that the plan for two new heavy ice breakers will cost $7.25 billion.
Budget officer estimates Liberals' heavy icebreaker plan to cost $7.25B

These two ice breakers will be for the Coast Guard, and will replace the CCGS Louis S. St. Laurent.

The assumption is that construction will start in the 2023 - 2024 budget year and the project will be complete in 2031.

Cost are estimated as follows:
  • Management $346 million (I've no idea what this is).
  • Design $820 million
  • Construction $6.1 billion

I should point out that the PBO do not have inside information as to costs, and their other estimates with respect to the frigates were seen as a bit dubious. So, take these numbers with a very large grain of salt.
 
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