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The problem with RU...

#1
Well hopefully that title got people interested!

With 6N kicking off, and following on from last years 6N and autumn tests, I fully expect to see large portions of the game devoted to resetting scrums, which if you're watching the game, is frankly boring!(and I say this as a hooker!)

So the question for the experts of arrse, how would you speed up/solve the problems of the scrum? Bindings, feeds, timing of the call etc. etc.
 
#2
Simple, just go back to how we originally had it... scrum goes down, front rows bind in, no shoving until the ball comes in and, finally, put the ****** in straight!

'Ready ready NOW' springs to memory.
 
#3
Simple, just go back to how we originally had it... scrum goes down, front rows bind in, no shoving until the ball comes in and, finally, put the ****** in straight!

'Ready ready NOW' springs to memory.

Yeah 'cos that'll stop it straight away.

Get rid of the flankers,have a ball turn around every 6 "phases",only give 1 point for a penalty kick and 2 for a conversion,make the scrums uncontested and bin lineouts.........hang on.. :)
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
Straight feeds would be a start, was refing an U15 game last week and the look I got when I pinged the first scrum as the ball went straight to the second row. Did make for an afternoon of reasonably straight put ins after that.

The use of CTPE, does help the setting of a scrum as long as there are not long pauses either side of "pause" if you know what I mean, CTPE should be fairly fast.

Shoulder above hips, square driving and proper binds. Of course, in playing days, at tight head, I did all of thses things! :)

Far easier to penalise who goes up first that who goes down. I enjoy scrums, I don't mind seeing them reset if they have broken down for a legitimate reason. But the ref has the option of free kicks and penalties if he chooses.

I hate when you see a steady scrum at team A's put in, but it's all over the place when it comes to B's. In my opinion the skullduggery is then being committed by A.
 

Travelgall

MIA
Kit Reviewer
#5
Yeah 'cos that'll stop it straight away.

Get rid of the flankers,have a ball turn around every 6 "phases",only give 1 point for a penalty kick and 2 for a conversion,make the scrums uncontested and bin lineouts.........hang on.. :)
5 Tackles and boot Rugby League. God you "Rogby Leeg" supporters are a chippy unhumourous bunch. About as dull as your bloody niche game.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
I left the game as a player 20 years ago and in many aspects its unrecognisable, almost as unrecognisable as American Football or league!
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#8
I left the game as a player 20 years ago and in many aspects its unrecognisable, almost as unrecognisable as American Football or league!
How true.

There are things allowed now which would have had the refs foaming at the mouth in my day. Things such as the player tackled and on the ground holding the ball in the air for the scrum half to get his hands on - that would have been classed as playing the ball after tackle in my day (Harrumph, rustles broadsheet newspaper, mutters under breath)
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
Pity they got rid of the "shoeings", cough I mean damned good rucking, to the poor sod who was lying on the wrong side.
Young Fang is extremely disappointed if he comes home from a game without stud marks! Not that he lies on the wrong side but his little hookers paws are often where they shouldn't be!
And he's especially proud when he's gotten away with it and I've been reffing.
 
#12
Young Fang is extremely disappointed if he comes home from a game without stud marks! Not that he lies on the wrong side but his little hookers paws are often where they shouldn't be!
And he's especially proud when he's gotten away with it and I've been reffing.
A quote from the late, great Bill Mclaren, after one player was carried off with blood pouring down his face;

"Aye, many a strange and terrible thing happens in the dark recesses of the Scrum..."
 

Travelgall

MIA
Kit Reviewer
#13
I didn't realize we'd started playing stereotypes.

Rugby Union: sport for fat people.
Were you bullied at Prep school then Tarquin?
No But I'm a Yorkshireman so I got very very bored over 20 years with Rugby League people telling me how great their bloody game is, and how shite Union is. I notice you've started your own thread. Notice how I haven't gone on it telling all and sundry how crap it is.
 
#14
No But I'm a Yorkshireman so I got very very bored over 20 years with Rugby League people telling me how great their bloody game is, and how shite Union is. I notice you've started your own thread. Notice how I haven't gone on it telling all and sundry how crap it is.
You're a Yorkshireman but you have a pop at people with a Northern accent. Are you from some part of the county I'm not familiar with - St John's Wood or the like?

I think only one person has slagged off Union but why let the facts get in the way?
As for League being a "niche" game:

Leeds Carnegie ~ Aviva Premiership team, 2010-11 home average attendance under 7000
Leeds Rhinos ~ Super League team, 2010 home average attendance over 15000

Same Stadium too. Chippy indeed.
 

Travelgall

MIA
Kit Reviewer
#15
You're a Yorkshireman but you have a pop at people with a Northern accent. Are you from some part of the county I'm not familiar with - St John's Wood or the like?

I think only one person has slagged off Union but why let the facts get in the way?
As for League being a "niche" game:

Leeds Carnegie ~ Aviva Premiership team, 2010-11 home average attendance under 7000
Leeds Rhinos ~ Super League team, 2010 home average attendance over 15000

Same Stadium too. Chippy indeed.
Re the accent quip. Its called self depricating humour.

The leeds carnegie v Rhinos. Oh there's a good analogy. How about I try total attendance at the Rugby Union World Cup V Rugby League World Cup. Or Harlequins RU attendance Vs Harlequins RL attendance. I never said League wasn't popular in West Yorkshire and amongst those heathens the other side of the Pennines. Chucking donkeys off bell towers is popular in one part of Spain, doesn't make it any less niche a form of animal cruelty compared to stabbing bulls over the whole country.

Only one person slagged off Union. Aye, but you're here too on a "Problem with Rugby Union" thread with your whining "If only they could see, if only they would love us, then those Union boys would recognise the error of their ways and come to the fold". And its not like you aren't on the other threads banging on about how League players are fitter and give women longer orgasms or something. Why can't League fans stick to their circle jerk "Oh, if it wasn't for the Nazis everybody in France would be playing League rather than Union" conspiracy forums. Why do they feel compelled to put their League 4 pennies worth every time anybody on the internet starts talking Rugby. Like Pavlov's dog, drooling every time you hear the Rugby Union bell somewhere in cyberspace. As I said on another decent talk about Rugby union diverted by gobshite League people popping up like a bad dose of recurring Chlamydia, you people are like Scientologists, unable to shut the hell up about your wierd hobby.

I haven't bothered to post on your Top XIII League players thread because I'm just not interested in your game. When I post a thread about Armour in Afghanistan, that's because I'm interested in your opinion on that topic, I don't want a bunch of cock clag about how a Harrier is faster than a Challenger II on said topic. I'm especially not bothered about giving you my opinion of League on a League forum. Please do feel free to return the favour.
 
#16
I've only really started to get into Rugby over the last few years, and I have heard much about how rugby has changed. But how?

Have scrums collapsing always been a problem?

I was watching this video:

YouTube - 5 Nations Rugby Highlights 1971

It looks really fast paced and generally quite hectic. I don't think I have ever seen Rugby played like that in the last few years.
 
#17
I've only really started to get into Rugby over the last few years, and I have heard much about how rugby has changed. But how?

Have scrums collapsing always been a problem?

I was watching this video:

YouTube - 5 Nations Rugby Highlights 1971

It looks really fast paced and generally quite hectic. I don't think I have ever seen Rugby played like that in the last few years.
I think the main difference, apart from a few rule changes, at the top level is the sheer physical montrousness of the players.

They are now so big, so fast and so fit it has had the effect of shrinking the pitch compared to the old days.

If you watch that youtube clip - and thanks very much for it by the way - the pitch seems so uncluttered and the players, backs especially have so much more time and space.

If you let a modern back row loose on a line of backs from the 70s it would be carnage.
 
#18
I think the main difference, apart from a few rule changes, at the top level is the sheer physical montrousness of the players.

They are now so big, so fast and so fit it has had the effect of shrinking the pitch compared to the old days.

If you watch that youtube clip - and thanks very much for it by the way - the pitch seems so uncluttered and the players, backs especially have so much more time and space.

If you let a modern back row loose on a line of backs from the 70s it would be carnage.
All very true.

However, what that clip also showed was quick hands, quick ball, and all the basics done right. Draw your man, then pass the ball before taking the tackle being one of them.

Christ! I wish Wales played like that now.
 
#19
That makes sense. Its a tricky one though. The sport was bound to go professional eventually, and as you say that has bred better athletes but a seemingly slower game.

Saying that, the France-Scotland game the other week was very enjoyable. Fast pace, lots of turnovers, some good scrums (The French scrum is a scary sight indeed) and some generally great rugby. And obviously the likes of the All Blacks are usually a joy to watch.

It sees to me that England tend to play a very boring game of rugby.
 

Travelgall

MIA
Kit Reviewer
#20
I think the main difference, apart from a few rule changes, at the top level is the sheer physical montrousness of the players.

They are now so big, so fast and so fit it has had the effect of shrinking the pitch compared to the old days.

If you watch that youtube clip - and thanks very much for it by the way - the pitch seems so uncluttered and the players, backs especially have so much more time and space.

If you let a modern back row loose on a line of backs from the 70s it would be carnage.
Which is why I'm a fan of using the rolling maul more. It used to suck forwards in instead of allowing them to hang out with the Inside centre blocking up space amongst the backs. Right now you can have a few guys at the breakdown whilst allowing the rest to form drift defence. To do this the refs need to stamp out a lot of the dragging of mauls down and killing the ball a la Richie McCaw. To do this they should bring back the ability of the individual killing the ball to be rucked out of the way. A few studs down the odd international forwards backs would be a nice little Admiral Byng on killing the ability of forwards to close down a ruck or maul.

I'd also kill shortened line outs. If all the forwards are forced to be at the line out the backs will have more space. You could mess with the rules and say that if a forward picks up the ball you have to take it into the 15m Indicated line but it would be a lot simpler making forwards be a threat as one mass.
 

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