The poorest families in the UK... whose fault is it?

How do you work that out? An employer can only employ so many! and your quotation comes from someone who has never employed anyone, I would suspect? Most employers, if they are any good will pay just about twice minimum wages in order to get good men or women,

In work benefits are effectively a subsidy to employers.

Most business owners are, in all but name, benefit scroungers.
 
Ah; another magical Arrse mind-reader. :roll:

Funny how such "gifted" types are always from the political left & the further left, the "better" they are at it.
That's why you tossers think you know what's best for people: You project your own inadequacies, as you can't bear to imagine others being in any way more self confident & self reliant than your inadequate selves.
He is Bog Irish in NYC. Kinda scary who can get a I-551 card these days.
 
Sad to say, but some of it is down to bad choices. Cigarettes/alcohol/take aways instead of spending money on essentials.
Australia is easily one of, if not the most expensive countries in the world in which to be addicted to tobacco, or even in which to be a "social smoker," if such a thing exists. From: Cigarettes are rising in price again — and it’s happening today


Despite annual price increases, there was no significant fall in Australian smoking rates from 2013 to 2016, according to the 3-yearly National Drug Strategy Household Surveys. Adult smoking rates increased in New South Wales from 13.5% to 15.1% between 2015 and 2016, and national cigarette consumption rose in 2017 for the first time in a decade according to the National Accounts.

Tobacco excise delivered a massive $12.5 billion to government coffers in the last financial year. However, this tax is particularly cruel at a time of zero wage growth. High prices exploit the most marginalised members of the community, such as low income groups, Indigenous people and people with substance use and mental illness.

The most disadvantaged have more than twice the smoking rates of the more privileged and have more difficulty quitting. For those unable to quit, high taxes are regressive, punitive and increase financial hardship and health inequalities. A pack-a-day smoker on Newstart spends 68% of their annual income on smoking, leaving very little for food, accommodation and other essentials.

The average household in Australia spends more on tobacco than they do on domestic holidays, motor vehicles, takeaway food, telecommunications or electricity.
Another unwanted effect of high prices has been the exponential growth in the illicit tobacco industry. Illicit tobacco from smuggling and illicit tobacco crops makes up 15 per cent to 28 per cent of the total tobacco market and funds organised crime and terrorism.

Australia’s tobacco control policy has always focused on telling smokers to just quit, also known as the ‘quit or die’ approach. However, smoking is a uniquely addictive habit. Seventy per cent of Australian smokers want to quit and most try repeatedly and fail, even with the best treatments. Continuing smokers remain at high risk and up to two out of three will die from a smoking-related disease.

However, there is now a viable alternative: vaping. Nicotine vaporisers (e-cigarettes) provide the nicotine that smokers are addicted to but without the tar and carbon monoxide that cause almost all the harm to health. Importantly they also replicate the smoking ritual and provide some of the pleasure and habit that makes quitting so difficult.

Nothing on this planet is risk free but at a minimum of 95 per cent less harmful, vaporisers are far safer than smoking and have helped millions of smokers quit overseas. Vaping with nicotine is legal in New Zealand, Canada, the UK, US and the EU. In Australia nicotine e-liquid is effectively banned but it can be legally imported or purchased from an Australian compounding pharmacy if the user has a prescription from a medical practitioner.

Thankfully I managed to quit smoking six and a half years ago. However it was only on my third attempt to do so that I managed it, so I do have some sympathy for smokers who remain addicted. I was wondering what the situation re smoking and the poor is in the UK?


 
Supply decent wages and you will see a réduction in benefits claims

What we saw was a double hit on skills.

Wages for unskilled were too high so employers stayed using lots of cheap but skilled migrant labour.

Seeing that kids were a passport to easy benefits top up money, rather than knuckle down and gain skills, people bred like rabbits and took low skill, low pay jobs that benefits made up the equivalent of a high skill pay rate.
You had the situation wher the skilled fitter with no kids was ending the week with less money than the floor sweep with kids who went round after him.
 
I know of one British beggar in Manchester that, at the end of a day's begging, drives home in a Range Rover.
We used to have an Asian man lying in a pile of rags begging in an alleyway. He stopped after his daughter pleaded with him to stop this nonsense. He was actually retired and owns a 3 bed semi nearby.
People would by him a hot drink or some food and chuck a few coins in his cup, some would stop and talk to him. I suppose it beats day time tv!
 
We used to have an Asian man lying in a pile of rags begging in an alleyway. He stopped after his daughter pleaded with him to stop this nonsense. He was actually retired and owns a 3 bed semi nearby.
People would by him a hot drink or some food and chuck a few coins in his cup, some would stop and talk to him. I suppose it beats day time tv!
He deserved a good kicking in my view.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
In work benefits are effectively a subsidy to employers.

Most business owners are, in all but name, benefit scroungers.
Idiotic thinking! Most decent men pay a decent wage, don't class all with Macdonalds and Costa.
 
The issue is basic financial knowledge itself. Many adults cannot even deal with percentages. Many think that borrowing money for a car is a reasonable thing to do. Many think credit cards are a way to borrow money when life’s expenses outpace income. With assumptions like these, the poor will always be among us.

No, getting out of poverty means fewer visits to pubs, restaurants, bars, malls, nightclubs, theme parks, and coffee shops. For many that has become a pleasant and comfortable habit too.

Booze, fags, recreational drugs, TV watching, lottery tickets, video game playing, procrastination, unhealthy eating, lack of exercise, comfort-eating and unnecessary shopping are other habits that are widespread. These factors stand between the average person and a poverty-free life.
Think how much money there is to be saved by giving up 75% of pub visits and taking an allotment instead ? I know there aren't that many , but most have spare spaces these days as most people wouldn't have a clue what one was , let alone what they're for .
 
Being a child of the late 40s early 50's, I tend not to get drawn into this kind of debate.

Poverty is relative, I see 'young people' look aghast and, comment when watching films and documentaries about life in the UK just after WW2. Raggy arsed kids, playing on bomb sites, swinging on lamp posts, in short trousers, and deeming them to be 'Poor'!

Most of my contemperaries, were in the same boat but, we never considered ourselves poor, back then there was no 'telly', people listened to the radio or, read books, kids 'played out' for as long as they could, the only thing worth coveting was a new home made scooter somebody's dad had made them out of scraps of wood and a couple of ball bearing races.

Treats would consist of a packet of crisps, a 'penny lolly', a penny's worth of sweets, which was always shared, we made our own amusement, "Peer pressure" was nonexistent because most kids knew they were as good as anyone else, the clothes you wore were a neccessity not a fashion statement !

Nowadays, kids aren't content with themselves, they have to adhere to the norm, if they don't they are made to feel inadequate, they don't get that some 40 odd year old man is dictating the trends to make money.

It keeps going when they grow up, they have to 'keep up with the Joneses', that's where the problem arises. 20+ year olds are told "If you don't have a house by the time you're 25, there is something wrong, you have to have a very expensive car, so that you can show of your success, Iphone, Ipad etc. Instead of thinking about budgetting they just blow the lot, then whinge.

Parents have a lot to answer for, their expectations seem to transfer onto the children, who then have that pressure from an early age and, if they fail to fulfil their parents expectations, they are deemed to have failed,a vicious circle!

When poverty is deemed to be £30,000+ for a household something is sadly wrong with society,it seems materialism rules!
Materialism isn't the road to happiness , anyway , as you have rightly pointed out . Kids in India playing street cricket or in Brazil kicking a ball about are a lot happier than kids fighting each other over who has the better phone and trainers in a school yard in the UK ( assuming they even go outside these days ) .
That's before they then start f*****g with their heads telling them they can choose to change sex at 8 , are " special needs " , allergic , prone to obesity through genes or whatever .
Most people in this country wouldn't know poverty if it stood up and bit them .
Free housing , schooling , transport , council tax and NHS plus money on top , and it's still not enough .
And they wonder why people will get in inflatable boats to brave the Channel in November to have some of that ?
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
When one considers poverty from days past, consider the 1946 British soldier that was charged with misappropriation of shiny bog paper in that he was found using it as writing paper. (Section 69 and all that)
Materialism isn't the road to happiness , anyway , as you have rightly pointed out . Kids in India playing street cricket or in Brazil kicking a ball about are a lot happier than kids fighting each other over who has the better phone and trainers in a school yard in the UK ( assuming they even go outside these days ) .
That's before they then start f*****g with their heads telling them they can choose to change sex at 8 , are " special needs " , allergic , prone to obesity through genes or whatever .
Most people in this country wouldn't know poverty if it stood up and bit them .
Free housing , schooling , transport , council tax and NHS plus money on top , and it's still not enough .
And they wonder why people will get in inflatable boats to brave the Channel in November to have some of that ?
Well said! and very true but please add the following comment from most 20/35 year old " I don't have to save my parents did that for me!" meanwhile most of them max out on several credit cards!
 
I think it is a bit of a game of two halves.

As a civilised country, we need to have a welfare system that will look after the genuinely needy and those who have - often through no fault of their own - hit hard times. Otherwise, me might as well be India or f**ing Ethiopia.
However, that said, unless we create an absolutely perfect system whereby no one will look to defraud it, or otherwise exploit the system which they see as a bottomless cash cow, then we must accept that the system we create is open to abuse. It just is. The system is staffed and utilised by human beings, and humans are fallible, dishonest and exhibit questionable behaviour.

Regarding abuse, I think again it comes down to two distinct strands:

First, the deliberate abuse at the coalface level by career wasters and doleys who have no experience, skills, motivation or desire to work. Contrary to the platitudes of politicians and Local Government employees, these people do exist (I used to be related to one). She has a house like a branch of Blockbusters, with a £1000 stereo sitting in the corner, and a coffee table piled high with prescriptions for whatever the latest faddy condition is this week. Both she and her daughter have I-pads and I-phones, I kid you not, and her daughter has a £1000 MTB - she's 13.

The second strand centres on policy driven facilitation of the above; as Ancient Mariner has pointed out on previous threads, the concept of £30000 motability cars, and the ability to claim up to the average wage whilst doing f**k all for it. It's just plain wrong; however there is no expedient and politically acceptable solution. If there were, someone would've thought of it by now.

In the Welfare State, with the very best of intent, we have created an unsustainable ideal.
 
"The poorest families in the UK... whose fault is it?"

In many cases, but by no means all, it's the fault of the poorest families.

No need to thank me. Any other Gordian knots up for a good slicing?
 
Sky subscription, iPhones and tattoos more important

More than a third of babies 'in poverty'
Close to £200 a week for a single parent & child after housing & council tax isn't poverty.
It might not be much but it'll get the basics and leave some over if spent wisely (no Cheryl & Chlamydia, the latest phart smone each is not an essential, nor is Sky or a weekly visit to the hairdresser...).
 
Sad to say, but some of it is down to bad choices. Cigarettes/alcohol/take aways instead of spending money on essentials.

Some of it is due to greedy employers offering starvation wages, as they know that there's always someone willing to work for next to nothing.

A lot of it is also due to cuts in the various state benefits.
I agree that some jobs only pay the minimum wage as per the law (encouraged by the fact that the taxpayer will make up the difference), starvation wages is one way of putting it I suppose.
Cuts in state benefits has a disproportionate effect because too many people are trapped on them for a host of reasons, such a shit state schools, family breakdown, and a benefits system that positively encouraged young women to marry the DWP instead of a half-educated young man. In short Government policy in these areas has been disastrous for decades.
 

Latest Threads

Top