The poorest families in the UK... whose fault is it?

Came across Sky are posting articles regarding poverty in the UK and highlighted the United Kingdom's poorest families coping with debt...

I doubt this is a problem that can be blamed on illegal immigrants or European workers taking over low paid jobs picking strawberries or due to the influex of skilled and unskilled labour... but the lefties will find a way either way...

So whose fault is it that they are?

Couple offer lifeline to single mother after Sky News story

The real cost of debt on the UK's poorest families

Hiding from the bailiffs

'I worry bailiffs will turn up at any point'

'I have £5 a week for food - could you do it?'
 

MrBane

LE
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Plenty of people out there choosing not to work and suffering for that

Plenty of people not living within their means. Struggles to buy enough food but has a TV subscription package and a drink or alcohol habit, etc, etc.

Plenty of people in genuine dire straits through unforseen problems draining the cash.

Plenty of people not saving for a rainy day, etc.

Lots of reasons / excuses / blames but I always believed it was about bettering yourself. I know many can't, but again, plenty won't.
 
Sad to say, but some of it is down to bad choices. Cigarettes/alcohol/take aways instead of spending money on essentials.

Some of it is due to greedy employers offering starvation wages, as they know that there's always someone willing to work for next to nothing.

A lot of it is also due to cuts in the various state benefits.
 
Plenty of people out there choosing not to work and suffering for that

Plenty of people not living within their means. Struggles to buy enough food but has a TV subscription package and a drink or alcohol habit, etc, etc.

Plenty of people in genuine dire straits through unforseen problems draining the cash.

Plenty of people not saving for a rainy day, etc.

Lots of reasons / excuses / blames but I always believed it was about bettering yourself. I know many can't, but again, plenty won't.
And always seem to have dogs and smoke taylors
 
If you really want to see the figures behind the headlines, look at the Index of Multiple Deprivations, it's published separately by England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland but it's worth a look

I need to use it for statistical analysis for work sometimes, and the data is very real

The Index of Multiple Deprivation is a UK government qualitative study of deprived areas in English local councils.
The first study (released in 2007) covers seven aspects of deprivation. The statistics described by the Neighbourhood Renewal Unit are:
  • Income
  • Employment
  • Health deprivation and Disability
  • Education Skills and Training
  • Barriers to Housing and Services
  • Crime
  • Living Environment.
That's a good starting point before launching into theories
 
'Poverty' is when you have no home, clothing, food or medical support. I see what the politicians deem 'poverty' every day. They
all smoke, have mahoosive TVs, a far better iPhone than the one I pay for and cars (and most of them are on various drugs). There is no (or at least very little) poverty in this country - the welfare state has removed the need to work. If you can't - or won't - work the state will house, clothe, feed and support you. Cynical? No, not any more...
 

Troy

LE
Some poor sods have got divorced and then taken to the cleaners, left in financial misery.


'Twould be cheaper to bump her off....



So some folk say.
 

Slime

LE
Sad to say, but some of it is down to bad choices. Cigarettes/alcohol/take aways instead of spending money on essentials.

Some of it is due to greedy employers offering starvation wages, as they know that there's always someone willing to work for next to nothing.

A lot of it is also due to cuts in the various state benefits.
Some of the reasons you cite are why there has been a huge increase in people getting into debt once they go into Universal Credit imho.

While the Left of politics live to blame UC and say the debt is due to people having money cut from benefits the truth is that it's sometimes the exact opposite that's to blame in a roundabout way imho.

In the old system where rent was paid direct to a landlord, council of housing association people couldn't spend the rent money.
With the roll out of UC and the rent being paid to the claimant it can sometimes seem like a (cruel imho) gift to give an addict the extra money as they are tempted, or just do spend the money rather than forward it to the landlord.
 

DarkBrig

Old-Salt
Never met anyone poor who wasn't either stupid or lazy
 
I've experienced it several times in the past, when you just don't have enough to pay the bills, and eat........ it's easy to fall into a hole through no fault of your own, if you're on crap wages.

Even now, when life is comfortable, I can't resist having cupboards full of cans and packets.

A lot of these people haven't the education to know how to eat cheaply.

In the Thatcher Reich, the civil servants went on strike, just as I got made redundant.

I'd buy 2 carrier bags full of chicken carcasses in the market for 50p.

That's why I hate chicken, now.

Chicken soup, chicken risotto, chicken curry.........
 

Slime

LE
'Poverty' is when you have no home, clothing, food or medical support. I see what the politicians deem 'poverty' every day. They
all smoke, have mahoosive TVs, a far better iPhone than the one I pay for and cars (and most of them are on various drugs). There is no (or at least very little) poverty in this country - the welfare state has removed the need to work. If you can't - or won't - work the state will house, clothe, feed and support you. Cynical? No, not any more...
To be fair and accurate.
Let's not confuse poverty and absolute poverty.

While most of us understand what absolute poverty would be we also have to accept that the UK uses a specific set of stats to measure poverty, thus a working couple bringing home £32.000* per year are poor in UK term.

Can't remember the exact figure, £32.500pa springs to mind.
Not saying I agree with how it's worked out or not, just pointing out the difference :)
 
Plenty of people out there choosing not to work and suffering for that.
A good friend of mine from HO insists that this is a widespread problem in Manchester, where she hails from. In fact, not only are they choosing not to work but also they are choosing not to claim benefits either.
 

Slime

LE
A good friend of mine from HO insists that this is a widespread problem in Manchester, where she hails from. In fact, not only are they choosing not to work but also they are choosing not to claim benefits either.
Can you expand on that, that sounds interesting.
 
Some poor sods have got divorced and then taken to the cleaners, left in financial misery.


'Twould be cheaper to bump her off....



So some folk say.
It happened to me and I was homeless for a while, moved to London and lived in digs and saved like no tomorrow whilst spending nothing but on essentials for a few years

Saved enough for a deposit on a house and moved on

Not everyone can do it mind, but even where I live there are houses available and affordable for those on minimum wage, you've just got to be prepared to move away from your roots sometimes to do it

For some that might be too much
 
Can you expand on that, that sounds interesting.
As claiming benefits has become more onerous and intrusive, many are choosing not to bother. Clearly some either already are criminals or become criminals, but many rely on their often poorly-paid parents to support them. She lives on a pretty rough estate so she is well aware of all of the social problems that surround her.
 
'Poverty' is when you have no home, clothing, food or medical support. I see what the politicians deem 'poverty' every day. They
all smoke, have mahoosive TVs, a far better iPhone than the one I pay for and cars (and most of them are on various drugs). There is no (or at least very little) poverty in this country - the welfare state has removed the need to work. If you can't - or won't - work the state will house, clothe, feed and support you. Cynical? No, not any more...
Careful you don't get hit by that low flying stereotype there....
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
To be fair and accurate.
Let's not confuse poverty and absolute poverty.

While most of us understand what absolute poverty would be we also have to accept that the UK uses a specific set of stats to measure poverty, thus a working couple bringing home £32.000* per year are poor in UK term.

Can't remember the exact figure, £32.500pa springs to mind.
Not saying I agree with how it's worked out or not, just pointing out the difference :)
It's all relative as well. People on six figures as a family can find it tight you know. I can only squeeze in three holidays in February. :D

Seriously though, yes, weren't not taking about real poverty with these stats. Were talking about people who won't live within their means.
 
I'm largely with @MrBane on this.

One of my acquaintances volunteers at a local foodbank but from what I have seen, most of the people who use it have chosen to spend considerable amounts of cash on fripperies such as e.g. latest model smartphones and fags.

There are some genuine cases but these are typically single mothers with feckless absent fathers who are themselves living off benefits and who don't make any contribution to their former spouse and children. You would be amazed how many of these there are. There are also the ones working in the black economy, like a certain person I am aware of who is pulling benefits and yet working as a labourer for cash in hand.

Yes, I have reported him, but nothing has been done before you ask.

And there are the real hardship cases, who have been put into debt by UC and the changes to the way in which rents and benefits are paid. Changes to taxation on buy to let have forced rents up, as have greedy landlords sucking up new "affordable" properties for private rental.

Today i was in London. I passed a dozen beggars within a mile walk from Euston to Marylebone. NONE were British!
 

Slime

LE
As claiming benefits has become more onerous and intrusive, many are choosing not to bother. Clearly some either already are criminals or become criminals, but many rely on their often poorly-paid parents to support them. She lives on a pretty rough estate so she is well aware of all of the social problems that surround her.
Thanks for the speedy reply :)
I can understand illegal or criminal types being a bit shy about claiming, but in days gone by the next biggest group were the 'too proud to claim' type.
 
A good friend of mine from HO insists that this is a widespread problem in Manchester, where she hails from. In fact, not only are they choosing not to work but also they are choosing not to claim benefits either.
Someone choosing NOT to claim benefits?

That's a new one!
 

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