The Polish Mindset

What 2 nations were the most brave, courageous, and able to fight until the end during WW2?

  • The British

    Votes: 66 70.2%
  • Americans

    Votes: 11 11.7%
  • The French

    Votes: 7 7.4%
  • Poles

    Votes: 22 23.4%
  • Germans

    Votes: 30 31.9%
  • Italians

    Votes: 7 7.4%
  • Russians

    Votes: 22 23.4%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 2 2.1%

  • Total voters
    94
No, Poles from the village who didn't have own land proposed to settle in Siberia and were granted lands.
There were 80 Polish families in the village of Polozovo. It was mixed Polish/Ukrainian village where my Father (future colonel of KGB) was born. Btw, 2 relatives of my Gradmother were executed in 1938 as 'members' of Polska Organizacja Wojskowa.
Oh ablsoute marbles. They were displaced
 
I assume the Idea is everyone will say UK then the Russian troll farms can spout about Western Boasting - UK arrogance and neglect of Russian Sacrifice - thus building on the DDay neglects Russia see how were excluded agitprop.

Its hard to see it as a Valid survey as
1) It Ignores China , Japan, Finland, Romania, Norway amongst others (Ive assumed Empire and Dominions are lumped under British forces)
2) UK and Germany -Are the only nations who were active belligerents from Start to finish* All the others Left Early - Poland - Italy, Norway, Took a break in the Middle - France - Russia**- Or Joined late Japan USA - So how can a question predicated on which countries fought from start to finish provide any other answer.
3) Bravery didn't really have much to do with whether your nation fought from Start to finish

Thus demonstrating the whole point is to wait until there's lots of Britain answers and use it as a propaganda stick about the evil boastful soviet hating west



* On the not unreasonable Premise that WW2 licked off in Europe and the China Japan war was a separate conflict prior to Pearl harbour -

**Yes you did - kicked off in 1939 on Adolfs side - sat out the next 18 months - then in 1941 cried like little girls and begged for help from everyone you betrayed when Hitler somewhat unsurprisingly given his rhetoric decided to tour Eastern Europe

Good post except that we actually do have a very low opinion of the Russians with very good reason.

So if Sergei does a propaganda dance about us despising his vile nation of lazy, servile, drunken criminals he's got a point.
 
And henrik Gorecki (can’t spell his surname). He was Polish

He’s good
I agree, but my wife doesn't. She finds his style very unnerving.
 
Oh ablsoute marbles. They were displaced
No, the resettlement happened in 1900-1901 during the reform instigated by PM Stolypin (killed in Kiev by Jewish terrorist)
1560866601631.png


Russian government tried to populate endless Siberia with settlers that suffered from absence of land in European part of Russian Empire. The settlers were transported without charge, were given money, loans, helped in different ways including food. The idea also was in turning of Poles and other national groups into Russians through mixed marriages and due to Russian linguistic environment. And in fact it worked. Poles in Siberia were potential reliable soldiers. Alas I haven't photo of my Great GrandFather Ignas as he died early but it is a photo of his Brother Stefan. As a soldier he took part in WW1.

1560867262919.png
 
The Tsarist Empire wanted to make the Poles into Russians and to dilute the Polish populations in the lands they had annexed during the partitions. Various methods were tried. The Prussians attempted the same thing in making the Poles into Germans. The most light handed overlords tended to be the Austrians - perhaps out of embarrassment for the Polish rescue of Vienna in 1683.
 
The Tsarist Empire wanted to make the Poles into Russians and to dilute the Polish populations in the lands they had annexed during the partitions. Various methods were tried. The Prussians attempted the same thing in making the Poles into Germans. The most light handed overlords tended to be the Austrians - perhaps out of embarrassment for the Polish rescue of Vienna in 1683.
Yes, Poles in the UK after 1-2 generation become British, Poles in the USA become Americans. Russia in this respect is not something special.
 
Yes, Poles in the UK after 1-2 generation become British, Poles in the USA become Americans. Russia in this respect is not something special.
I disagree. Poles came to UK and USA voluntarily and assimilated. They did not invite Russia to come to Poland to assimilate them.
 
the resettlement happened in 1900-1901 during the reform instigated by PM Stolypin (killed in Kiev by Jewish terrorist)
Please note, You said that.
The settlers were transported without charge, were given money, loans, helped in different ways including food. The idea also was in turning of Poles and other national groups into Russians through mixed marriages and due to Russian linguistic environment. And in fact it worked. Poles in Siberia were potential reliable soldiers. Alas I haven't photo of my Great GrandFather Ignas as he died early but it is a photo of his Brother Stefan. As a soldier he took part in WW1.
again I call spherical things, of course the displaced moved by Stalin were moved free of charge and Poles in Siberia were not Siberian and in the course of things the Kullack were practically wiped out, You're attempt to move things that were responsibility to before the Soviet regime won't wash, not that the Tzarists were not bad enough.
 
I disagree. Poles came to UK and USA voluntarily and assimilated. They did not invite Russia to come to Poland to assimilate them.
During almost a century so called Kingdom of Poland was a part of Russian empire. But if not Russia then Prussia and Austria would control this territory. Under Russian rule this part of Poland had own currency, own legislation and parliament. Polish and Russian were official languages. It would be unthinkable if central Poland would be under control of Prussia and Austria. In this case fast Germanization would take place along with German settlers. By contrast there were no Russian settlers (at least in big numbers), there were no forcible Rusification.
Warsaw under Russian rule became the 3d largest city in the Empire and Polish economy was fast developing.
 
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During almost a century so called Kingdom of Poland was a part of Russian empire. But if not Russia then Prussia and Austria would control these territory. Under Russian rule this part of Poland had own currency, own legislation and parliament. Polish and Russian were official languages. It would be unthinkable if central Poland would be under control of Prussia and Austria. In this case fast Germanization would take place along with German settlers. By contrast there were no Russian settlers (at least in big numbers), there were no forcible Rusification.
Warsaw under Russian rule became the 3d largest city in the Empire and Polish economy was fast developing.
It was so wonderful that there were major uprisings against Russian rule in 1830-1 and 1863-4. Essentially wars for independence that were brutally crushed by Russia. Poles regained their independence at the first possibly opportunity. Some of the participants who got away are buried in the older part of Highgate Cemetery in North London.

There was forced Russification under Tsarist Russian rule, my grandparents spoke of it. In particular in the education system.
 
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Please note, You said that.

again I call spherical things, of course the displaced moved by Stalin were moved free of charge and Poles in Siberia were not Siberian and in the course of things the Kullack were practically wiped out, You're attempt to move things that were responsibility to before the Soviet regime won't wash, not that the Tzarists were not bad enough.

Tsarist plans and Stalinist plans for Slavs were nothing compared to Uncle Hitler's schemes.


But the Russians are still dreadful.
 
It was so wonderful that there were major uprisings against Russian rule in 1830-1 and 1863-4. Essentially wars for independence that were brutally crushed by Russia. Poles regained their independence at the first possibly opportunity. Some of the participants who got away are buried in the older part of Highgate Cemetery in North London.
Exactly as the Irish, Czechs, Slovaks gained independence at the first opportunity. Let's compare Poland and Ireland. Restoration of the statehood happened at the same time. There were wars for independence and previously uprisings. There were complicated questions about the border. So two cases have much in common. As for differences then
- Language. Poland remained Polish speaking while Ireland is predominantly English speaking.
- Settlers. There were no Russian settlers in Polish lands while there was a lot of British settlers in Ireland.
- Currency. Poland in times of Russian empire had own currency. It was unthinkable in Ireland.
- Parliament. Poland had own legislative body while Ireland was voided it.
Let's suppose that Poland managed to gain independence in 1830's or 1860's (as a result of uprisings) then would be newly created state viable? No of course. The first step of the Polish government would be to ask Russia to defend Poland from territorial expansion of Prussia and Austro-Hungary. There were geopolitical realities - independence of Poland in 19th century was impossible.
There was forced Russification under Tsarist Russian rule, my grandparents spoke of it. In particular in the education system.
Rusification, Germanization, (interwar) Polonization, (now) Ukrainization.... Let's compare. What exactly Tsarist Russian government did in the context of Rusification?

Let's look at interwar Poland
History of Poland (1918–1939) - Wikipedia
A third of the population consisted of minorities—Ukrainians, Jews, Belarusians and Germans—who were either hostile towards the existence of the Polish state because of the lack of privileges or often discriminated against in the case of Ukrainians and Belarusians who faced Polonization. There were treaties that supposedly protected them but the government in Warsaw was not interested in their enforcement
1560911936843.png


Relations with the much larger Ukrainian minority, who formed 15% or so of the national population and were in the majority in several eastern provinces, were even more strained.
than relation with German minority.
The Ukrainians were poor peasants who resented their Polish landlords and the government's policy of polonizing them.
government offices were not allowed to use Ukrainian
note that for Ukrainians Polish was in fact foreign language and most of them were unable to comprehend it.
Orthodox churches were closed, especially in Volhynia province. Some men went underground and tried to assassinate Ukrainians who collaborated with the government, as well as top Polish officials.
Compare it with the situation in the Kingdom of Poland in Russian empire. Polish was used in local offices and of course no one Catholic church was closed.
 
Tsarist plans and Stalinist plans for Slavs were nothing compared to Uncle Hitler's schemes.


But the Russians are still dreadful.
I did consider that a bit a of bait. Plain fact is that historically, it's just plain wrong. Hitler had Eastern resettlement plans as did uncle joe with his Russian expansionism,, their methodology was different. Ultimately it comes down to the indivual who is expendable. That is not acceptable under either guise. The Paradox for me was that when I was in, serving in the country of my Birth was that it was the culmination of what the Americans wanted to do in 1945. As Stalin pointed out "the death of One man is a tragedy-the death of a Million is a statistic." My point as ever has been that it seems that Stalin's body count from the purges, the Kullacks, the 5 year plans seems somehow more acceptable that the death of the Jewish diaspora. I sorry but for me it isn't. The plain fact is in the European context the last thing that Emperors and Kings cared about was "Die Bevoelkerung" they died in spades. In total my family lost six in two world wars on both sides and I am sick of the eternal whining that is politically motivated because somehow everyone else is special. They died in the various wars for various reasons. They died of wounds, starvation. disease. That is all.
 
I did consider that a bit a of bait. Plain fact is that historically, it's just plain wrong. Hitler had Eastern resettlement plans as did uncle joe with his Russian expansionism,, their methodology was different. Ultimately it comes down to the indivual who is expendable. That is not acceptable under either guise. The Paradox for me was that when I was in, serving in the country of my Birth was that it was the culmination of what the Americans wanted to do in 1945. As Stalin pointed out "the death of One man is a tragedy-the death of a Million is a statistic." My point as ever has been that it seems that Stalin's body count from the purges, the Kullacks, the 5 year plans seems somehow more acceptable that the death of the Jewish diaspora. I sorry but for me it isn't. The plain fact is in the European context the last thing that Emperors and Kings cared about was "Die Bevoelkerung" they died in spades. In total my family lost six in two world wars on both sides and I am sick of the eternal whining that is politically motivated because somehow everyone else is special. They died in the various wars for various reasons. They died of wounds, starvation. disease. That is all.


Expendable is one thing, and it's an outrage.


Adolf and his band of psychopaths actually intended mass extermination.


Neither is good but there's a difference.


Admittedly from the perspective of the poor bastards caught up in the event it's a moot point.
 
Expendable is one thing, and it's an outrage.


Adolf and his band of psychopaths actually intended mass extermination.


Neither is good but there's a difference.


Admittedly from the perspective of the poor bastards caught up in the event it's a moot point.
I disagree, the reasons for both were ideological . Intended extermination? Your last point answers that question. Whether you kill on a matter of ecomic reform and view that as acceptable or as a matter of principle: Neither is good : basta or do Mao and Pol Pot or other ilk get off. You either die as a matter of ideology or because of it. For those who don’t get democracy, neither the Chinese, The Russians or the Germans had it, they had rubber stamp bureaucrats. Two of them still don’t.
 
Exactly as the Irish, Czechs, Slovaks gained independence at the first opportunity. Let's compare Poland and Ireland. Restoration of the statehood happened at the same time. There were wars for independence and previously uprisings. There were complicated questions about the border. So two cases have much in common. As for differences then
- Language. Poland remained Polish speaking while Ireland is predominantly English speaking.
- Settlers. There were no Russian settlers in Polish lands while there was a lot of British settlers in Ireland.
- Currency. Poland in times of Russian empire had own currency. It was unthinkable in Ireland.
- Parliament. Poland had own legislative body while Ireland was voided it.
Let's suppose that Poland managed to gain independence in 1830's or 1860's (as a result of uprisings) then would be newly created state viable? No of course. The first step of the Polish government would be to ask Russia to defend Poland from territorial expansion of Prussia and Austro-Hungary. There were geopolitical realities - independence of Poland in 19th century was impossible.

Rusification, Germanization, (interwar) Polonization, (now) Ukrainization.... Let's compare. What exactly Tsarist Russian government did in the context of Rusification?

Let's look at interwar Poland
History of Poland (1918–1939) - Wikipedia


View attachment 399525


than relation with German minority.


note that for Ukrainians Polish was in fact foreign language and most of them were unable to comprehend it.

Compare it with the situation in the Kingdom of Poland in Russian empire. Polish was used in local offices and of course no one Catholic church was closed.
Classic Russian argument: “Yes, but what about......?“.
 
Expendable is one thing, and it's an outrage.


Adolf and his band of psychopaths actually intended mass extermination.


Neither is good but there's a difference.


Admittedly from the perspective of the poor bastards caught up in the event it's a moot point.
So did Stalin using a different ideology for an excuse.
 

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