The police farce.

I joined the police with another ex-soldier. He had 22 years on the technical side. He is the first to admit he's not the most academically minded of individuals and is pleased he avoided the degree scheme bollox. His strengths lie in having the common touch, the ability to talk to people, calm down the violent (though he's handy in a scrap when needed) and pick up the low. He's been to some dreadful jobs. He found a 14 year old girl hanging in a derelict building and recently climbed into a wrecked car to carry out CPR on a woman because they couldn't get her out. She didn't make it.

When a cabal of back-stabbing tw@ts tried to stitch me up in training for (I will admit) a few misguided comments - trying to get formal action when 'words of advice' were what was needed (thankfully the Sgt wasn't taken in though I did get a telling off that I'd rather forget) he was the only one who knocked on my door later and asked if I was OK. At our end of course party we left as soon as was polite, went to a quiet pub and had a couple of pints together. We've actually been in the same station for the last few months but our shifts haven't led to us working together which is a shame as he's one of the the few officers I'd trust at my back.

He is an excellent copper - or rather he was. He put in his resignation papers today. He's sick of the desk that is supposed to filter out and deal with low key stuff finding tenuous excuses to pass jobs 'for local engagement'. He's sick of the desks that trawl the fine print looking for extra crimes to record or extra forms to complete. He's sick of dealing with the same faces again and again and again. Professional shoplifters going up in court for the umpteenth time with 20 separate offences covering thousands of pounds in lost stock getting 'community orders' and paying compensation at £20 a month.

He's sick of people who assault his colleagues getting 'diversionary schemes'.

He's sick of the utterly incompetent and downright dangerous officers being allowed to carry on with their antics without anyone doing anything about them.

He's a great bloke but he's been a miserable c_unt for ages. I knew he'd been applying for technical jobs with a major telecoms provider and now he has an offer he's off. I will still go to the pub with him but I will miss his cheery "Alright you f_ucking c_unts" as he comes into the report room.
 
It’s a shame your colleague is leaving but if he has a better opportunity somewhere else ( maybe better pay?/ better hours?) good luck to him.
Policing nowadays does appear more complex. Maybe until 20 years ago, was it more black and white? Catch the crooks and put the away?
Now it’s all human rights and diversity box ticking. Every move that a police officer makes caught on an iPhone.
People want more police yet don’t seem to want to be policed themselves.
Unfortunately, and I may get flamed for saying this, the recruitment policy now seems more about recruiting from the LGBTQ+ community. What the feck does that even mean?
Recruit the best people for the job,irrespective of their colour, sex, sexual orientation. People that have a bit of balls about them and can calm a situation down using communication skills. People that have the confidence to go onto a scene and manage a situation.
 
There are many videos on YouTube of people filming Police stations and police car parks. When challenged by an officer, out come the usual , “I can film what I like and you can’t stop me. No,I’m not telling you I’m filming “
So if an officer didn’t approach the person filming and a week later an attack should happen, what then? The would be police get criticised for not challenging.
To be fair to the police, they seem to be in an unwinnable situation with these scenarios.
 

Site Admin

Old-Salt
There are many videos on YouTube of people filming Police stations and police car parks. When challenged by an officer, out come the usual , “I can film what I like and you can’t stop me. No,I’m not telling you I’m filming “
So if an officer didn’t approach the person filming and a week later an attack should happen, what then? The would be police get criticised for not challenging.
To be fair to the police, they seem to be in an unwinnable situation with these scenarios.

Getting a rise out of an officer = YouTube views and the likes of Auditing Britain knows this. He quickly becomes belligerent and goading as soon as the conversation goes sour. However I think these sorts of people should expect to be challenged though by proactive police even if they’re legally filming from public property, but politely, professionally, and without agendas. And quickly too; the longer these interactions drag on generally the worse it looks for the copper involved…. And AB’s voice gives me a headache anyway.
 
It’s literally a piece of legislation laying out the primary duties of the police.

If you’re upset about the ongoing impact of 1600’s caselaw, you’ll probably shit the bed when you read what the law has to say about the origin of a right to fair trial.



Newsflash - the office of Constable significantly predates Peel… and what is the first thing they swear to uphold?

“that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved”
I wouldn't eat that.
 
He's sick of dealing with the same faces again and again and again. Professional shoplifters going up in court for the umpteenth time with 20 separate offences covering thousands of pounds in lost stock getting 'community orders' and paying compensation at £20 a month.

He's sick of people who assault his colleagues getting 'diversionary schemes'.
It was like that in 1988 when I first left Hendon for Hillingdon. The only time it ever changed was around 1995 when Michael Howard was Home Secretary when he said 'prison works' and they started jailing the scrotes. There was a lot of chuntering from the liberal establishment but it seemed to work and the crime rate dropped. It could have all been down to a demographic blip of course.

Once Blair took power though it was all back to normal. In fact things got a whole lot worse after the McPherson witch hunt.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
It was like that in 1988 when I first left Hendon for Hillingdon. The only time it ever changed was around 1995 when Michael Howard was Home Secretary when he said 'prison works' and they started jailing the scrotes. There was a lot of chuntering from the liberal establishment but it seemed to work and the crime rate dropped. It could have all been down to a demographic blip of course.

Once Blair took power though it was all back to normal. In fact things got a whole lot worse after the McPherson witch hunt.
McPherson report was a doddle old boy! The Sheehey report is wot done us.

In 1993, loads of us (23,000 I seem to recall) were bussed into Wembley Arena to have a discussion with our Federation regarding the Sheehey report. (Policing responsibilities and rewards) Tony Blair was the keynote speaker and he smarmed his way into our hearts. We all believed his lies about better Policing if he got into no 10. He was very good.

It was a grand day out.

Then it all went horribly wrong.

Within 6 months we (Thames Valley) had a 3 tier bonus scheme running (The Chief Constable publicly stated that nobody would be good enough and would not be getting the top tier, regardless.) As a town centre beat cop (Maidenhead) I was expected to now generate heaps of paperwork. Parking Offences. Tax Disc Offences. Minor Public Order Offences, all the small stuff that would be better served by a warning and a pocketbook entry. If there was no paperwork trial how could the bean counters at Kidlington (HQ) work out my bonus? Traffic Officers loved it of course, the Black Rats were throwing penalty tickets around, akin to chimps flinging shit. It was chaos. The scheme was doomed, obviously, and binned about year later.

New pay and conditions came in. No subsidised housing for married Officers. Small Rural stations closed at night. Single blokes (that was me) had to leave the section house and pay extortionate Home Counties rent. The first hour of our overtime was unpaid. Ch. Inspector rank and above were not paid at all for any overtime.

Experienced Officers were taken off Plain Clothes work, River Police handed over their little boats, Divers handed in their fins and masks and they rotated back onto the Uniform shift every 5 years. Can you imagine the happy little faces of hardened 20 year detectives doing night shift in a Panda Car? Or a skilled diver slowly walking a town beat giving directions or telling folk the time? I have mentioned this before, I was in the area car once, crewed with a 15 year veteran of Royal Protection duties. Despite a one week course he had no idea how to use a breathaliser, started searching a car whilst I was chatting to the driver regarding his driving, had no idea regarding the rules surrounding Stop & Search. PACE was a complete mystery and he went off sick as soon as he was rostered for Jailor duties back at the nick, and of course Royal Protection lost a good man. Detectives refused to wear uniform and round and round went the merry go round.

In 1997 Blair got into No 10 and it got worse. Much worse. (Well it did for me, I got stabbed and jacked it all in.)

I do not look back with any sense of pleasure, or achievement because of those last few years.

TJF
 
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He's sick of dealing with the same faces again and again and again. Professional shoplifters going up in court for the umpteenth time with 20 separate offences covering thousands of pounds in lost stock getting 'community orders' and paying compensation at £20 a month.

That's the killer. I work for a partner agency, and over the last few months at he behest of the police, who are running special targeted operation I've filed literally hundreds of witness statements about the same four ******* people. The idea seemed to be to establish behaviour patterns leading to action. Nothing ever seems to get done.
Now, I know full well the difficulties the police are under, and indeed know full well the differences between appearance of action and what is possible (I came from a background in H&S and have seen that stuff was actioned, but the reportee's never saw it as actioned, so stopped reporting.) But even with that knowledge it's been hard to keep motivated, and some weeks the task of writing up has been shuffled to the bottom of the pile of paperwork and not gotten done.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
That's the killer. I work for a partner agency, and over the last few months at he behest of the police, who are running special targeted operation I've filed literally hundreds of witness statements about the same four ******* people. The idea seemed to be to establish behaviour patterns leading to action. Nothing ever seems to get done.
Now, I know full well the difficulties the police are under, and indeed know full well the differences between appearance of action and what is possible (I came from a background in H&S and have seen that stuff was actioned, but the reportee's never saw it as actioned, so stopped reporting.) But even with that knowledge it's been hard to keep motivated, and some weeks the task of writing up has been shuffled to the bottom of the pile of paperwork and not gotten done.
Paperwork!

Back in the 80's and 90's, it was very newsworthy regarding taking coppers off paperwork and putting them back on patrol, but many folk, outside of law enforcement did not know what that really meant.

The file presented to CPS (who had turned anal paperwork into an art form, some information to the left and some to the right, all in the correct order, or it would come screaming back via the Detective Inspector and bollockings issued) for a shoplifter required exactly the same paperwork as one for murder. Now obviously the murder file was a hell of a lot thicker, witness statements and forensics, door to door enquiries and photographs made it so, but it was still paperwork.

A shoplifter was usually four statements, one from the aggrieved (the store manager) one from the the witness and one from arresting Officer and one generated by time in the interview room.* These were placed in the file with any other evidence. The Officer then grabbed a set of headphones and a dictaphone and dictated the statements onto a cassette and sent that off to to the civvies in the typing pool which were eventually forwarded to CPS. If it was agreed that the suspect be charged, there were those forms and the bail to court paperwork as well.

If all went well, it tied you up for half a shift.**

Of course, not all shoplifters were arrested and charged. Most were dealt with at the time of the alleged offence. A stout female Store Detective, (Do they still have those?) who was usually the witness, would have the suspect in a firm grip and frogmarched to the Managers office to await Police arrival. A young person could expect to be arrested, taken by car to their home address and de-arrested into the care of the parents. (Ha! Sometimes that didn't go down well either. Plenty of stories about that system.)

Now that is just one case, a shoplifting. Often a beat cop would have an overflowing docket of cases. Fifteen wouldn't be unusual, theft by distraction was popular, TWOC, (motor vehicle taken without consent) Bilking (Not paying for petrol) Domestics, public order outside pubs and nightclubs. Common assault and criminal damage were daily occurances. Drink driving, substance abuse and more, would all need attention back at the nick. It was a non stop grind, although the introduction of tape recorded interviews speeded the process up quite a lot, very few actually ended up in court.

So many young coppers, hard working, dedicated people keeping the community safe, jacked it in before 5 years were up.

So aye, the conveyor belt of the usual suspects went on and on, mountains of paperwork was generated for no real purpose and of course the antisocial element of the community flicked the V signs and carried on normal jogging.

*Interviews were conducted by way of contemporaneous notes when I joined. A question was written down on a statement form before being put to the suspect, the reply was then also recorded, (this of course gave a suspect plenty of 'thinking time' as s/he prepared their answers.) A shoplifting case could easily run to a dozen or more pages.

**Nobody other that the most prolific offenders ever made it to court.

Edited for speeling.
 
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Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Paperwork!

Back in the 80's and 90's, it was very newsworthy regarding taking coppers off paperwork and putting them back on patrol, but many folk, outside of law enforcement did not know what that really meant.

The file presented to CPS (who had turned **** paperwork into an art form, some information to the left and some to the right, all in the correct order, or it would come screaming back via the Detective Inspector and bollockings issued) for a shoplifter required exactly the same paperwork as one for murder. Now obviously the murder file was a hell of a lot thicker, witness statements and forensics, door to door enquiries and photographs made it so, but it was still paperwork.

A shoplifter was usually four statements, one from the aggrieved (the store manager) one from the the witness and one from arresting Officer and one generated by time in the interview room.* These were placed in the file with any other evidence. The Officer then grabbed a set of headphones and a dictaphone and dictated the statements onto a cassette and sent that off to to the civvies in the typing pool which were eventually forwarded to CPS. If it was agreed that the suspect be charged, there were those forms and the bail to court paperwork as well.

If all went well, it tied you up for half a shift.**

Of course, not all shoplifters were arrested and charged. Most were dealt with at the time of the alleged offence. A stout female Store Detective, (Do they still have those?) who was usually the witness, would have the suspect in a firm grip and frogmarched to the Managers office to await Police arrival. A young person could expect to be arrested, taken by car to their home address and de-arrested into the care of the parents. (Ha! Sometimes that didn't go down well either. Plenty of stories about that system.)

Now that is just one case, a shoplifting. Often a beat cop would have an overflowing docket of cases. Fifteen wouldn't be unusual, theft by distraction was popular, TWOC, (motor vehicle taken without consent) Bilking (Not paying for petrol) Domestics, public order outside pubs and nightclubs. Common assault and criminal damage were daily occurances. Drink driving, substance abuse and more, would all need attention back at the nick. It was a non stop grind, although the introduction of tape recorded interviews speeded the process up quite a lot, very few actually ended up in court.

So many young coppers, hard working, dedicated people keeping the community safe, jacked it in before 5 years were up.

So aye, the conveyor belt of the usual suspects went on and on, mountains of paperwork was generated for no real purpose and of course the antisocial element of the community flicked the V signs and carried on normal jogging.

*Interviews were conducted by way of contemporaneous notes when I joined. A question was written down on a statement form before being put to the suspect, the reply was then also recorded, (this of course gave a suspect plenty of 'thinking time' as s/he prepared their answers.) A shoplifting case could easily run to a dozen or more pages.

**Nobody other that the most prolific offenders ever made it to court.
I’ll have nightmares tonight after reading that.


Thanks.:muhaha:
 
I think that expectations around the standard of file and evidence required to get a case to court need to be managed a lot better because the process noted above still rings true to an extent.

Seeing the constant bitching that rape rarely gets a conviction in the press - a perennial failing which is reported - always frustrates me because the reports always show so little understanding of how much work goes in to the investigation, and the quality of evidence required, to even get a charge, is breathtaking.

And that's before you consider the delightful inconsistency of juries. I brought a case which was a black and white offence. Take a banned article into a prison, offence complete. The defendant failed to appear twice at the trial and still was found not guilty!
 
During my forays back to divisional policing, and certainly in my last 3 years which was all spent on division. I did notice a severe degeneration in the CJS side of things.

I feel very old as a I predate both PACE and the CPS, however that grounding gave me an insight into how court worked, we presented our own cases and the courts (magistrates) were run by police.
For a first appearance of an indictable offence at the Magistrates court, very little paperwork is actually required, I may be wrong it's been a while, but I believe evidence of a prima face case and the identity of the accused confirmed is all that is required by the magistrate. In the olden days this was an arrest report, maybe a single witness statement, and some antecedence for accused.

Now it seems to be that the CPS require a full file before they even know of the plea of the accused. I get why they want it like that, cops are notoriously bad at replying to CPS memos.

It need as severe shake up, the courts, the CPS and the police need to be sat in a room and actually decide what is needed. And the Police need not to cave and to say what is possible given the manpower and time available.

Caseloads need to be reduced not through home office counting rules and fecking bean counters sitting in a nice office 8-4 Monday to Friday. Victims expectations need to be managed properly, we spend far too much time flogging dead horses because they are the latest thing in the crime stats.

Everybody thinks their crime is the most important thing ever, and the full resources of the police should be concentrating on their shed burglary, but like I say expectations need to be managed and to hell with the angry letters to the local rag. Just for clarity this also applies to the numerous face book threats to kill, and others who are outraged about something or other and feel that the police should deal.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
If the rank and file coppers are all so pissed off with their jobs, are they making any noise about it?
Are they complaining to senior management?
Well as one Ch Insp said when asked why we don’t we get a say in the new shift pattern?
”That will give you the impression that you have a say in decisions we make when you don’t”.
Fair enough, straight forward answer. That why I gave you a funny.
 
Paperwork!

Back in the 80's and 90's, it was very newsworthy regarding taking coppers off paperwork and putting them back on patrol, but many folk, outside of law enforcement did not know what that really meant.

The file presented to CPS (who had turned anal paperwork into an art form, some information to the left and some to the right, all in the correct order, or it would come screaming back via the Detective Inspector and bollockings issued) for a shoplifter required exactly the same paperwork as one for murder. Now obviously the murder file was a hell of a lot thicker, witness statements and forensics, door to door enquiries and photographs made it so, but it was still paperwork.

It has got worse. They now want information presented in four or five different ways. Our files go to one of several Case Progression Units. Our local one is great. The two ladies in it will 'have a quick look' at the file before you submit it. They aren't supposed to but they'd rather spend half an hour now to save lots more time later. They are also happy to deal with questions and are firmly of the 'there's no such thing as a silly question' set. Some of the others are gits. I once got into an argument after my file was graded 'not up to the required standard' due to 'grammar errors in the narrative'. It came down to apostrophes and adverbial clauses of time. I'm afraid I did get rather a sh1tty on and fired an email off to my skipper who once he had stopped laughing, passed it on to the inspector who replied on my behalf along the lines of 'PC Devex has many qualifications, including foreign languages, Membership of the Chartered Institute of Linguists, is a qualified teacher and holds a specialist Adult Literacy Certificate. I intend to use him to proof read my important documents [which I did until he moved] and suggest you take his word on grammar. The file was passed.

The file will then go to CPS who will send back an SU17 Memo with further work. This will often be for things that are already on the file or asking for information that is in one of the documents they haven't read. I've been asked to take statements from 'Andrew Jones who was present and witnessed the incident'. Andrew Jones was a three month old baby - this was made clear in the file.

There is a well documented case of them asking for a statement from a police dog.


A shoplifter was usually four statements, one from the aggrieved (the store manager) one from the the witness and one from arresting Officer and one generated by time in the interview room.* These were placed in the file with any other evidence. The Officer then grabbed a set of headphones and a dictaphone and dictated the statements onto a cassette and sent that off to to the civvies in the typing pool which were eventually forwarded to CPS.
Doesn't happen now. Officers transcribe everything including interviews. If you are lucky there might be someone on restricted who will do it for you, if not, book Status 8 Committed - not deployable and off you go.

If it was agreed that the suspect be charged, there were those forms and the bail to court paperwork as well.

If all went well, it tied you up for half a shift.**

Of course, not all shoplifters were arrested and charged. Most were dealt with at the time of the alleged offence. A stout female Store Detective, (Do they still have those?) who was usually the witness, would have the suspect in a firm grip and frogmarched to the Managers office to await Police arrival. A young person could expect to be arrested, taken by car to their home address and de-arrested into the care of the parents. (Ha! Sometimes that didn't go down well either. Plenty of stories about that system.)
This can still happen. Adult Community Resolution for shoplift if it's a first offence, goods recovered in saleable condition and remorse shown. Accept a ban and referral to a diversionary scheme.

Now that is just one case, a shoplifting. Often a beat cop would have an overflowing docket of cases. Fifteen wouldn't be unusual, theft by distraction was popular, TWOC, (motor vehicle taken without consent) Bilking (Not paying for petrol) Domestics, public order outside pubs and nightclubs. Common assault and criminal damage were daily occurances. Drink driving, substance abuse and more, would all need attention back at the nick. It was a non stop grind, although the introduction of tape recorded interviews speeded the process up quite a lot, very few actually ended up in court.

So many young coppers, hard working, dedicated people keeping the community safe, jacked it in before 5 years were up.

So aye, the conveyor belt of the usual suspects went on and on, mountains of paperwork was generated for no real purpose and of course the antisocial element of the community flicked the V signs and carried on normal jogging.

*Interviews were conducted by way of contemporaneous notes when I joined. A question was written down on a statement form before being put to the suspect, the reply was then also recorded, (this of course gave a suspect plenty of 'thinking time' as s/he prepared their answers.) A shoplifting case could easily run to a dozen or more pages.

**Nobody other that the most prolific offenders ever made it to court.

Edited for speeling.
 
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