The police farce.

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
You’ve got your opinion and I’ve got mine.
I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve stopped people for minor offences only for them to pull the “ haven’t you got any rapists or peadophiles you could be arresting”, card.
These aren’t your regular shit bags but your every day mostly law abiding members of the public.
There should be a special fine for asking that question !
 
Apart from a few drunken escapades many years ago, I haven’t had many dealings with the police.
If had a maybe two/ three random checks in 20 odd years of driving. One of them was because I’d finished work at 2 am, and they were probably looking for drink drivers.
I don’t feel the need to give them attitude or get my phone out and start filming them. Apart from anything, that just gets people’s backs up and would delay me further. I’d expect arguing with plod would just make them want to go further in their checks, start checking tyres etc etc.
There’s a bloke on YouTube who has many videos of Surrey police stopping him. He does the usual arm char lawyer stuff, the “I know my rights” stuff. One of the videos was a simple traffic stop that lasted for 40 minutes.

I’d assume this bloke has lots of time on his hands if his hobby is creating arguments with police officers and posting them online.
Why doesn’t he just get a proper hobby and maybe think about growing up?

Exactly. I can't recall ever arguing with a copper, never mind filming it on my phone. Most of the time I've been polite and respectful and been treated the same way in return. The very rare occasion the copper has been aggressive or disrespectful towards me, I've simply pointed out that if he doesn't wind his neck in, I'll be on the phone to his Professional Standards Department as soon as this interaction is concluded. That always worked.
 
Being told to arrest someone is (and happens regularly)

If there’s no lawful grounds to arrest or necessity under Code G than yes it would be an unlawful and for the officer to stand their ground. Again as in every large organisation some people allow themselves to be browbeaten into doing stupid things.
 
I've been stopped and restrained by three plainclothes coppers because I resembled a bad lad they were looking for. After a few questions they realised their mistake and apologised. I shrugged and told them it was no drama, they were doing their jobs.

Since there's nothing at all special about me, I venture to suggest a great many interactions between coppers and citizens follow this pattern.
You obviously passed the attitude test. Many don't. And then whinge when they get a ticket instead of the verbal warning PC Plod originally intended to give them.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I still wake up having dreamt about the job and not finishing the paperwork in time.
Work wise the happiest day of my life was driving out of Cavalry barracks for the last time.
A close second was leaving the police, mind you I was pretty happy when the lump sum paid the mortgage off.
Bloody hell, last night I had a dream about the job. I was posted to a strange borough which I didn't like and wanted to go back to my old borough. Was out patrolling the new area with the new team and felt really uneasy about it. I woke up and was really relieved that it was all a dream.

I have had the paperwork dream and that I am back in custody (as an officer, not a prisoner) also that I am late for work or don't know what shift I am on, also my radio doesn't work (quite common in the old Storno days). I am always relieved when I wake up and realise it is over six years since I had to go into work.

I have only started getting police dreams the last year or so ago. I have only just got over my Army dreams, usually with me being recalled back to the Army and missing kit.

When I first left the Regular Army I had a strange nostalgia for the Army. On Street Duties we visited HMP Wormwood Scrubbs and while everyone else was saying how horrible it was, I felt really at home as it was just like a lot of barracks I had lived in. The green stone walls, metal beds and lockers in the cells and the smell of boiled cabbage in the kitchen.

After 4 years in the job I joined the TA. 4 Company, 10 Para based at the Duke of Yorks HQ, Sloane Square, Chelsea in November 1991. It was one of the best thing I have done. I had already passed regular AAPC and BPC in 1983 so I only had to do a two week Para refresher course. They had only been issued the SA80 a few months before and got a quick half hour lecture on how to strip and reassemble it. I bought one of these little Cadet manuel's to teach myself the rest. First weekend we were on the ranges and not having done any weapons drills on the SA80 I just used the old SLR ones and nobody said anything.

The job gave me 15 days paid leave for the Annual Camp and 10 days for weekend training so with the bounty quite a nice little earner. It was strange but as soon as I walked through the doors of the Drill Hall on Friday night I was back in the Army mode and stayed that way until I walked out of the Drill Hall on Sunday afternoon. It was actually easier on the two week Annual camp or courses as I was totally back in the military way of thinking.

Back at work on the Monday I got some strange looks as I talked about 'lobbing in with the Toms' at the weekend. The TA lads in 10 Para were a great bunch and it was good mixing with people who weren;'t in the Police. The regular Officers and PSI's from the Parachute Regiment were very good as well. As much as I enjoyed it though I was always glad that my main job was the police and not the Army and never regretted joining the police.

There wasn't a lot going on in the Airborne world in the nineties so the chances of doing any tours was rare. The Paddies had thrown in the towel in 1994 and the Paras weren't used in Bosnia. Some of the 10 Para lads did a six month tour with 2 LI in Bosnia in 1996 and got treated like shit for their trouble. I was always happy to do a Kolweizi type rescue mission in Africa so long as it didn't take longer than two weeks and it counted for the annual bounty.

In the late nineties I did a two week Combat Intelligence course with the Int Corp in Bulford. It was sad to hear the young regular lads whinging about the same petty aspects of Army life that I whinged about almost thirty years before in the early seventies.

I did three years in South Korea and Hong Kong between 1983 -86 and put my notice in then as the next ten years until my 22 years was up didn't appeal to me. Joined the job in December 1987 and never regretted it. Especially when they told me I could carry over my pensionable service so on day one I had nine years nine months in towards my thirty.

Working in a wide area of London from central London to inner and outer areas and dealing with so many people from all over the world from the super rich in Chelsea and Kensington to the destitute elsewhere gives you a huge perspective on life that you would never get staying for twenty two years or longer in the Army, especially when you joined as a 15 year old Junior Leader.

Sadly we had the best times in the eighties and nineties and it has only got a lot worse for the young boys and girls joining these days with crap pensions and conditions of service. The Job seems to have got worse in every way. The Job really is f*cked.
 
If there’s no lawful grounds to arrest or necessity under Code G than yes it would be an unlawful and for the officer to stand their ground. Again as in every large organisation some people allow themselves to be browbeaten into doing stupid things.

Indeed - and this is a worthwhile read of just how much of a clusterfuck ‘only obeying orders’ can lead to:

 

Nobody

RIP
RIP
Worst fight I can remember was with a s136 dentainee. I did feel quite bad about the force I had to use on him, wasn't his fault. He was just ill. This was pre-TASER and everything, so things got a bit basic quite quickly.
Message me please. You have messages inhibited. Open your barriers for a short while.
shuckriya
 
You obviously passed the attitude test. Many don't. And then whinge when they get a ticket instead of the verbal warning PC Plod originally intended to give them.

The attitude test cuts both ways. Police officers are entitled to be treated with respect.. As long as they reciprocate. They are public servants, not masters.
 

Green_Homer

War Hero
The attitude test cuts both ways. Police officers are entitled to be treated with respect.. As long as they reciprocate. They are public servants, not masters.

Crown servants to be pedantic.

There are indeed some absolute throbbers in the job who have no idea how to speak to people, funnily enough they don't get much respect from their colleagues either.

Thankfully my interactions with the public are limited in my current role. As a blue shirt my job was pretty much fixing other peoples lives - the vast majority of the public are indeed supportive and pleasant, mainly because they rarely have need to interact / utilise the police...

However, you would be surprised at how many seemingly 'outstanding' members of the community think that the law only applies to other people. Like Mr middle class BMW driver who thought it a good idea to stop on a busy roundabout just off of a motorway to DEMAND that I give him directions (as I was blocking an exit with a van due to a RTI further up the road). I'm sure he thought I was being rude after shouting at him several times to go into the services literally off the next exit and ask in there as I would rather not see a high speed crash in front of me.

He kept going round and stopping before eventually going into the services and then crossing busy multilane traffic to ask me again. Amusingly at this exact moment the road closure was called off and rather than risk my life for a second longer (how the excrement can't people see big vans with blue flashing lights..?!) I simply drove off and smiled at him.
 
Maybe the point being made was the Chief Superintendent was expressing public partiality, i.e. an overt political act on wearing the rainbow!? It was not a politically neutral stance while performing their office's duties.

I agree.
 
So it’s an example of an officer wearing LGBT items on their uniform. Nobody wore anything showing preference to one group or another when I served in that force, I don’t believe they should now.

I agree.
 

Truxx

LE
So it’s an example of an officer wearing LGBT items on their uniform. Nobody wore anything showing preference to one group or another when I served in that force, I don’t believe they should now.
I do know a now retired Chief Constable who wore a neat little set of para wings on his best uniform. Ex 3 Para.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Bloody hell, last night I had a dream about the job. I was posted to a strange borough which I didn't like and wanted to go back to my old borough. Was out patrolling the new area with the new team and felt really uneasy about it. I woke up and was really relieved that it was all a dream.

I have had the paperwork dream and that I am back in custody (as an officer, not a prisoner) also that I am late for work or don't know what shift I am on, also my radio doesn't work (quite common in the old Storno days). I am always relieved when I wake up and realise it is over six years since I had to go into work.

I have only started getting police dreams the last year or so ago. I have only just got over my Army dreams, usually with me being recalled back to the Army and missing kit.

When I first left the Regular Army I had a strange nostalgia for the Army. On Street Duties we visited HMP Wormwood Scrubbs and while everyone else was saying how horrible it was, I felt really at home as it was just like a lot of barracks I had lived in. The green stone walls, metal beds and lockers in the cells and the smell of boiled cabbage in the kitchen.

After 4 years in the job I joined the TA. 4 Company, 10 Para based at the Duke of Yorks HQ, Sloane Square, Chelsea in November 1991. It was one of the best thing I have done. I had already passed regular AAPC and BPC in 1983 so I only had to do a two week Para refresher course. They had only been issued the SA80 a few months before and got a quick half hour lecture on how to strip and reassemble it. I bought one of these little Cadet manuel's to teach myself the rest. First weekend we were on the ranges and not having done any weapons drills on the SA80 I just used the old SLR ones and nobody said anything.

The job gave me 15 days paid leave for the Annual Camp and 10 days for weekend training so with the bounty quite a nice little earner. It was strange but as soon as I walked through the doors of the Drill Hall on Friday night I was back in the Army mode and stayed that way until I walked out of the Drill Hall on Sunday afternoon. It was actually easier on the two week Annual camp or courses as I was totally back in the military way of thinking.

Back at work on the Monday I got some strange looks as I talked about 'lobbing in with the Toms' at the weekend. The TA lads in 10 Para were a great bunch and it was good mixing with people who weren;'t in the Police. The regular Officers and PSI's from the Parachute Regiment were very good as well. As much as I enjoyed it though I was always glad that my main job was the police and not the Army and never regretted joining the police.

There wasn't a lot going on in the Airborne world in the nineties so the chances of doing any tours was rare. The Paddies had thrown in the towel in 1994 and the Paras weren't used in Bosnia. Some of the 10 Para lads did a six month tour with 2 LI in Bosnia in 1996 and got treated like shit for their trouble. I was always happy to do a Kolweizi type rescue mission in Africa so long as it didn't take longer than two weeks and it counted for the annual bounty.

In the late nineties I did a two week Combat Intelligence course with the Int Corp in Bulford. It was sad to hear the young regular lads whinging about the same petty aspects of Army life that I whinged about almost thirty years before in the early seventies.

I did three years in South Korea and Hong Kong between 1983 -86 and put my notice in then as the next ten years until my 22 years was up didn't appeal to me. Joined the job in December 1987 and never regretted it. Especially when they told me I could carry over my pensionable service so on day one I had nine years nine months in towards my thirty.

Working in a wide area of London from central London to inner and outer areas and dealing with so many people from all over the world from the super rich in Chelsea and Kensington to the destitute elsewhere gives you a huge perspective on life that you would never get staying for twenty two years or longer in the Army, especially when you joined as a 15 year old Junior Leader.

Sadly we had the best times in the eighties and nineties and it has only got a lot worse for the young boys and girls joining these days with crap pensions and conditions of service. The Job seems to have got worse in every way. The Job really is f*cked.
I thought about joining the TA but I had this nagging doubt and I blame that on my experience having done six years in the Guards, silly me thinking the whole army was like that so decided against it.
Yep looking back on the whole I enjoyed my experience in the police, as you say you see things that you never think possible and types of people that you never thought existed(ignorance is bliss).
Policing as you know isn’t all about arresting Johnny scrote and although we slag the job off, and did when we served I’m so glad I did it, the laughs far out weighed the bad times.
 
You police by consent of the people, not the Crown.
This is true but we are classed as Crown Servants under employment law.

Also, policing by consent does not mean than anyone can withdraw that consent - so the people get policed whether or not they want to be.
 
Bloody hell, last night I had a dream about the job. I was posted to a strange borough which I didn't like and wanted to go back to my old borough. Was out patrolling the new area with the new team and felt really uneasy about it. I woke up and was really relieved that it was all a dream.

I have had the paperwork dream and that I am back in custody (as an officer, not a prisoner) also that I am late for work or don't know what shift I am on, also my radio doesn't work (quite common in the old Storno days). I am always relieved when I wake up and realise it is over six years since I had to go into work.

I have only started getting police dreams the last year or so ago. I have only just got over my Army dreams, usually with me being recalled back to the Army and missing kit.

When I first left the Regular Army I had a strange nostalgia for the Army. On Street Duties we visited HMP Wormwood Scrubbs and while everyone else was saying how horrible it was, I felt really at home as it was just like a lot of barracks I had lived in. The green stone walls, metal beds and lockers in the cells and the smell of boiled cabbage in the kitchen.

After 4 years in the job I joined the TA. 4 Company, 10 Para based at the Duke of Yorks HQ, Sloane Square, Chelsea in November 1991. It was one of the best thing I have done. I had already passed regular AAPC and BPC in 1983 so I only had to do a two week Para refresher course. They had only been issued the SA80 a few months before and got a quick half hour lecture on how to strip and reassemble it. I bought one of these little Cadet manuel's to teach myself the rest. First weekend we were on the ranges and not having done any weapons drills on the SA80 I just used the old SLR ones and nobody said anything.

The job gave me 15 days paid leave for the Annual Camp and 10 days for weekend training so with the bounty quite a nice little earner. It was strange but as soon as I walked through the doors of the Drill Hall on Friday night I was back in the Army mode and stayed that way until I walked out of the Drill Hall on Sunday afternoon. It was actually easier on the two week Annual camp or courses as I was totally back in the military way of thinking.

Back at work on the Monday I got some strange looks as I talked about 'lobbing in with the Toms' at the weekend. The TA lads in 10 Para were a great bunch and it was good mixing with people who weren;'t in the Police. The regular Officers and PSI's from the Parachute Regiment were very good as well. As much as I enjoyed it though I was always glad that my main job was the police and not the Army and never regretted joining the police.

There wasn't a lot going on in the Airborne world in the nineties so the chances of doing any tours was rare. The Paddies had thrown in the towel in 1994 and the Paras weren't used in Bosnia. Some of the 10 Para lads did a six month tour with 2 LI in Bosnia in 1996 and got treated like shit for their trouble. I was always happy to do a Kolweizi type rescue mission in Africa so long as it didn't take longer than two weeks and it counted for the annual bounty.

In the late nineties I did a two week Combat Intelligence course with the Int Corp in Bulford. It was sad to hear the young regular lads whinging about the same petty aspects of Army life that I whinged about almost thirty years before in the early seventies.

I did three years in South Korea and Hong Kong between 1983 -86 and put my notice in then as the next ten years until my 22 years was up didn't appeal to me. Joined the job in December 1987 and never regretted it. Especially when they told me I could carry over my pensionable service so on day one I had nine years nine months in towards my thirty.

Working in a wide area of London from central London to inner and outer areas and dealing with so many people from all over the world from the super rich in Chelsea and Kensington to the destitute elsewhere gives you a huge perspective on life that you would never get staying for twenty two years or longer in the Army, especially when you joined as a 15 year old Junior Leader.

Sadly we had the best times in the eighties and nineties and it has only got a lot worse for the young boys and girls joining these days with crap pensions and conditions of service. The Job seems to have got worse in every way. The Job really is f*cked.

See what you mean about there wasn’t much on for the airborne forces in the 90s. 1 Para did Kosovo in 99 and Sierra Leone the year after. But I think throughout most of the 1990s, the regular Para battalions floated between Aldershot and tours of NI.
My dad applied to join the Met in 1990, after serving 12 years in the airborne forces.Apparently back then you couldn’t join if you had tattoos on your lower arms, visible to the public?

He then joined the Prison Service instead, he managed to get his 12 years army pension to continue onto his prison service one. He left in 2018 with 38 years crown service on his pension statement.

Regarding TA Para- he did say he met some good lads that he worked with on tours/ exercises from the TA, some very professional, when you consider these guys are part time soldiers.

I did consider the TA myself, or Army Reserve as it’s called nowadays, however I’ve been out for almost 12 years and being fairly average when I served, I’m not sure there would’ve much demand for me!
 

HE117

LE
You police by consent of the people, not the Crown.
Hmm,, not strictly correct, you are conflating two issues..

UK Police are not a separate legal entitiy in the same way as the Armed Forces. Theoretically, they do not have additional powers over that of a member of the public. In theory they police by public consent in that they are supposed to be held to the same standards of behaviour as any other subject. In proctice much of these differences have been eroded as the status of the Armed Forces has changed, for example by the loss of Crown Immunity etc. whilst statute law has granted Police powers that they never had in the past. Policing of the Armed Forces used to be an entirely separate business, and the civil police had no authority on military sites or over military personnel. This again has changed, IMHO not for the better..

As far as the issue of whether Police Constables are Crown Servant, it is interesting to note that Constables in England swear allegience to the Crown, however those in Scotland and NI do not. Constablularies used to be based on county council boundaries and subject to the Authority of the Chief Constable.

The tinkering with the consitiutional positions of the Police and Armed forces over the past decades, particularly at the time of the Blair Government, is yet another legacy from a wholly poisonious and ill concieved administration. The establishment of a fundamentally flawed devolution structure for Scotland, leading to the formation of a National Police force is yet another example of this.

The fire breaks that existed with the British Constitution were put there for extremely good reasons. The trouble with tying your boats to wooly concepts such as "the consent of the people" inevitably means that they drift off in directions that serve only the interests of minorities, and usually for all the wrong reasons...!
 
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