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The police farce.

I call it on the spot up selling when they aren’t getting what they want.

Upping the allegations to socially engineer their problems with police assistance.
That's why we have to be often very careful with our line of questioning so as to not put words in their mouth. What can be a quite clear cut council matter can easily escalate if they are asked "have you heard any disruption/arguing". It's a fine balance- do you assume had there been they would have said that initially as their concern or...
 

poo_finger

Old-Salt
@supermatelot & @wetsmonkey, I’ve read this thread in its entirety and hats off to you for fighting our corner. I didn’t realise there was that much animosity towards the Police existed in the Veteran community considering the amount of us that have transitioned from green to blue!
 
Immediate response doesn’t necessarily mean a speedy response!
I don’t know what it’s like in your force mate, but we have about 3 response drivers on my shift covering a small city, we work from a centralised hub covering half the county and it can take 30+mins to cover that dependent where you are!

Personally I’ll drive as quick as I can to get to an immediate, but without being blues qualified if I hit traffic etc then I’m not permitted to do anything else but sit in that traffic! (I will caveat that with if there’s an immediate threat to life, then I’ll be doing whatever I can to get to wherever I need to be PDQ and justify it later).

Officers are waiting 2+ years for their blue light chit. Most of us will do the best we can with what we’ve got, but more often than not we’re working with one hand tied behind our back.
I know- There are targets for the 3 gradings we use - Immediate/emergency-7 mins-blue lights. Priority-60 mins - standard-48 hours. Response targets are closely monitored and it cause grief for despatch if one is incorrectly graded 'Emergency' as they have to downgrade and re-apply rationale.

Very often there will be emergency logs backed up as there simply isnt the units available. High risk mispers often cause this. As you will very likely know.
 
@supermatelot & @wetsmonkey, I’ve read this thread in its entirety and hats off to you for fighting our corner. I didn’t realise there was that much animosity towards the Police existed in the Veteran community considering the amount of us that have transitioned from green to blue!
I don't think its animosity. I do think there is a massive misunderstanding of what actually goes on behind the scenes. people often phone 999 and get frustrated when I continue asking them questions- often have to reassure them im typing like a monkey in the background alerting everything that needs to know about whatever they are reporting. From their point of view-some call centre monkey is just asking inane questions and wasting time whilst doing so-and not taking them seriously.
Call control is a big thing- and it often involves people who consider themselves quite important people being told to 'be quiet-listen to me-I need THIS information...'
 
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@supermatelot & @wetsmonkey, I’ve read this thread in its entirety and hats off to you for fighting our corner. I didn’t realise there was that much animosity towards the Police existed in the Veteran community considering the amount of us that have transitioned from green to blue!
I don’t think it’s animosity, more like antipathy based on experience. That doesn’t mean veterans dislike individual coppers but I suspect most see police services as hidebound in self-imposed PC crap.

Note self-imposed
 
I’m not talking about the situations that affected me personally. If I was that arsed I’d just drag the cars into the ditch with the tractor and deny all knowledge.

I’m talking about the owner of a home being repeatedly broken into, including a few times while they were in it, the house being burgled, set fire to and destroyed to the tune of millions of quid and the police doing nowt.

I can only assume reasonably security precautions were in place. It was a 3 million quid mansion after all. I saw one of the (Thankfully not destroyed) chandeliers in a local antiques place recently, they wanted 30 grand for it.

A £million arson and the police took no action? Doesn’t seem right.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
To be fair mate- you never mentioned he was in it at the time, yiou actually said 'when he returned from Spain he found...'.

I did...

The owner came back from Spain and experienced break ins every night. Imagine people breaking into your home, every single night, while you’re in it. They had smack addict squatters living in one half while they barricaded themselves into a bedroom.
 
I’m sure we’ve all got stories about the police doing absolutely **** all in the face of overwhelming evidence, or the justice system dolling out ridiculously light sentences for stuff.

Here’s mine.....

There is a big old Victorian mansion in my village. It’s one of those gaffs that’s too big to live in. It has its own ballroom and was formerly used as a school. It would make a nice hotel but it’s in a non-touristy part of the county and doesn’t have enough land with it.

It has a complex and chequered history. About 10 years back the house was rented out to a gang who turned some of the rooms into a cannabis farm.

Pretty good idea actually. Most cannabis farms are in the lofts of grotty council houses, not in 30 bedroom Palladian mansions. High electricity bills are part and parcel of gaffs like this so you’re not gonna attract any attention running a hydroponic farm.

All was going well until the police were tipped off. They did a full dawn raid but being a huge mansion, the criminals inside managed to get away out of one of the many back doors.

By all accounts burning cigarettes were still in ashtrays when the police got in.

Anyway, the landlord who was in on the game got banged up, I think most of the rest of the gang got away.

So the owner is now banged up, the house changes hands. New owner splits their time between Cumbria and Spain, so the house sits empty for quite a lot of the time.

Word spreads that there is “an abandoned drug lord’s mansion” in a sleepy little village in Cumbria. We’re talking Pablo Escobar shit.

Now this house is fairly hard to find unless you know where it is. You can’t see it from the road. If you were driving through the village looking for “the drug lord’s mansion” you would probably come to my house, as it’s the next biggest “mansiony” type place round here and easy to spot from the road.

For a few weeks we had randoms snooping around our place at night. They’d usually **** off as soon as they realised they were at the wrong place. We left some upstairs lights on every night to show the place was very occupied.

One day I notice a load of beat up shit box cars dumped on my land. Two were blocking the gate next to a cattle grid meaning we couldn’t move any livestock.

My semi tame gypsy mate also couldn’t get his horse and carriage through because of these cars.

So with a day of work on the farm basically written off and no sign of the owners of these cars, I phone plod and explain the situation. I explain that I suspect the owners of these cars are more than likely wild camping at the “drug mansion.”

About 3 hours later a very disinterested PCSO turns up, takes the number plates and then leaves without doing anything else.

Anyway, turns out the ******* had broken into the mansion to do some “urban exploring.”

They plastered their exploits all over YouTube and got over a million hits. This opened a tidal wave of copy cat “explorers”, squatters and thieves who turned up over the course of a few weeks and completely destroyed the place. I mean like 3 million quids worth of damage, arson and theft to this house.

Police did absolutely nothing to stop it. repeated crimes taking place, every single night over the course of weeks. The owner came back from Spain and experienced break ins every night. Imagine people breaking into your home, every single night, while you’re in it. They had smack addict squatters living in one half while they barricaded themselves into a bedroom. The owner put a video on social media of someone breaking into their house and pleading for the police to come.

I think there were two or three prosecutions in the end, the highest punishment being 300 hours of community service.

Community service for destroying and looting someone’s house and putting it on youtube.

By comparison there was a pissed up ******** waving his (Licensed) shotgun around (On his own farm) a few weeks back and that warranted 8 police cars and a ******* SWAT team.
That reminds me of something I saw on the tv a while ago. Some old boy had a disused fairground that he wanted to sell to developers but was forever being harassed by trespassers. The police weren't interested in the least, so he resorted to dressing up as a werewolf to scare people off. The trespassing carried on - the police still refusing to get involved. In the end it came to him being exposed by a group of young amateur investigators. He would probably have gotten away with it had it not been for for them (and their sandwich-obsessed dog) getting involved. Bloody coppers are a waste of time.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The police cannot be relied upon to provide 24/7 cover. I think there may be more to this possibly.

Agreed but, let’s put this into context.

Forget it’s a big mansion and it’s just a normal 3 bed semi detached house in Swansea.

Owner goes on holiday, house gets broken into while they’re away. The perpetrators put vids of themselves all over YouTube.

As a result of this, lots more people come to the house the following night and the next.

Hundreds.

The neighbours phone the police, they turn up but no action is taken. The neighbours phone up and tell the owner that they better get home ASAP.

They get home, find the house trashed, burned and stuff robbed. While in it, they are subjected to an onslaught of people breaking in. Every night for weeks.

The police come out once or twice, move a few people on but make no arrests.

Eventually they stop coming and deem the owner to be a nuisance. It’s their fault this is happening apparently.

A few months later one or two people out hundreds are arrested for nicking stuff and bragging about it on Facebook. They get a few hours of community service.

The police don’t even bother to go after the original people who first broke in and put it all over YouTube.

This is why the general public have no faith in the police.
 
A few years ago or if it was just outside offices etc then the security would have just been jobsworths or the business not wanting photos or video of their property.
Unless he was on an external part of their land there would have been nothing that could be done about it.
Because of the shopping centres protected status now under terrorism there are more grounds for the police.
The more experienced police woman may have picked up that he began to acknowledge videoing and then mid sentence switched to lieing.

She has been called out to a complaint, is being blatantly lied to, and he is being a dick.

The first opportunity was to stop when security asked him.
The next opportunity was to tell the truth to the police and just say he won’t do it again.
Another opportunity was to give his details.

There could have been no police presence or it could have been dealt with in a matter of minutes.

But that isn’t what he wanted, he wanted to provoke a response from security and the police and to make another YouTube video.

I take photos of pretty much anything, the majority on my phone, but on occasion do some street photography with my proper DSLR. The majority of people take no notice, even the police. On occasion a couple of people have said no. I’ve only been asked I think twice to not use people’s photos when photographing events. I deleted them in front of them - though they said I didnt need to, as they just didn’t want them published as they were not supposed to be there (I don’t want photos that I cannot use)
The only occasion I was more uncomfortable was with the photo of a China Town massage parlour doorway. A lady came out as I was taking pictures - she didn’t look pleased & I didn’t fancy walking over to tell her I’ll delete it and made a hasty retreat (in the wrong direction so I had to backtrack past again)

If he was just taking a photos of the sign then he had nothing to worry about, he could have given his details and if pressed could have willingly shown the photos. (Or if he told the truth he could have shown the video)
Because he had lied, he couldn’t ultimately show the photos - or if he does have any photos in showing them he would also have to show the video which didn’t match his lies.
Is it an offence to take pictures of the inside of a shopping centre then ?
 
Is it an offence to take pictures of the inside of a shopping centre then ?

It would depend on what the person taking them intends to do with them.

In the same way it’s not an offence to walk into someone’s house through an open door and look around and leave. It is however if you intend to thieve.

The police need to speak with the person to establish what’s going on and ideally check their background.

A prolific burglar who walks into your kitchen through an open door claiming innocence is totally different to a pissed up bloke going into next door by accident.

However the country wants cops to enquire but only receive cooperation of those that feel inclined.
 
Agreed but, let’s put this into context.

Forget it’s a big mansion and it’s just a normal 3 bed semi detached house in Swansea.

Owner goes on holiday, house gets broken into while they’re away. The perpetrators put vids of themselves all over YouTube.

As a result of this, lots more people come to the house the following night and the next.

Hundreds.

The neighbours phone the police, they turn up but no action is taken. The neighbours phone up and tell the owner that they better get home ASAP.

They get home, find the house trashed, burned and stuff robbed. While in it, they are subjected to an onslaught of people breaking in. Every night for weeks.

The police come out once or twice, move a few people on but make no arrests.

Eventually they stop coming and deem the owner to be a nuisance. It’s their fault this is happening apparently.

A few months later one or two people out hundreds are arrested for nicking stuff and bragging about it on Facebook. They get a few hours of community service.

The police don’t even bother to go after the original people who first broke in and put it all over YouTube.

This is why the general public have no faith in the police.
Not wishing to get into an argument over this but- either I blatantly missed the bit about the owner pleading for police on YouTube as she was in the house being broken into at the time or-you have added it later.
I find it hard to perceive any situation with anyone phoning police and stating there is an ongoing burglary and the police chinning it off.

Based on what you have said, and the online news reports seen on google- I cant help thinking there may be more to this. Squatters etc change the whole ballgame. Were council involved? Any court proceedings put in place?

Although the house, as it would appear, was essentially derelict- it was still lived in. IMO should have had more attention paid towards it by police but - I feel the story is incomplete somehow.
 
It would depend on what the person taking them intends to do with them.

In the same way it’s not an offence to walk into someone’s house through an open door and look around and leave. It is however if you intend to thieve.

The police need to speak with the person to establish what’s going on and ideally check their background.

A prolific burglar who walks into your kitchen through an open door claiming innocence is totally different to a pissed up bloke going into next door by accident.

However the country wants cops to enquire but only receive cooperation of those that feel inclined.
That prolific burglar hasn't committed an offence and finding out his criminal record won't change that , they would still have to let him go .
 
You're not wrong with regards to the public perception, although I believe that as soon as they realise that people aren't getting shot left right and centre they will soon get over it.

Cost sadly is a major driver behind most things - it's not as simple as buying X number of Glocks (plus ancillaries , ammo etc) and on your way for instance. Training costs alone will be massive bearing in mind that you will need to have:

A suitable number of qualified trainers available (of whom the existing lot have their hands full with the existing AFO (and above) training) - So that means more trainers to be trained up.

Suitable armouries in stations

Training days to initially qualify - how long would this be for example? Existing AFO training has massively ramped up over the years due to the changing threats and increased expectation... Will a week of basic operating and SAA be enough? Will the standard response officer with his / her glock be expected to conduct an emergency search of a building involving an active shooter? In my opinion let's say a minimum of 2 weeks simply to give the officer a standing chance.

Most home office teams barely operate at minimum staffing levels (and often below) - Even staggering training will involve having to draft in others on overtime to plug gaps.

Ditto regarding re qualifying - remember this will be on top of every other refresher training that needs to be conducted.

It's not impossible to achieve this but it will cost a lot of money in the short - medium term. That's before anything else is taken into account such as your comment ;)

Out of interest what does the PSNI training involve?
 
That prolific burglar hasn't committed an offence and finding out his criminal record won't change that , they would still have to let him go .
Not neccesarily. Too many possible variables though. Any other similar reports at the time? Was he equipped? Anything been touched/moved?

Its a very unlikely scenario though. There are always exceptions.
 

Green_Homer

War Hero
Out of interest what does the PSNI training involve?

Honestly I wouldn't know - I would assume they follow COP guidelines on AFO APP (Authorised Police Practice) but wouldn't be surprised if they have tailored it to their needs.

Edited to add - From COP website on carriage of weapons :
Northern Ireland
In recognition of the special circumstances prevailing in Northern Ireland, the chief constable has given standing authority for all officers, subject to successful training, to be issued with a personal issue handgun which may be carried when officers are both on and off duty.

In addition, the standing authority addresses situations in which officers may be issued with other firearms and less lethal weapons when they are on duty.

The standing authority issued by the chief constable of PSNI is kept under regular review in accordance with Recommendation 65 of A New Beginning: Policing in Northern Ireland – Report of the Independent Commission on Policing for Northern Ireland (1999).
 
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That prolific burglar hasn't committed an offence and finding out his criminal record won't change that , they would still have to let him go .

If I found a prolific burglar in someone’s house and he was using a bullshit excuse, I would arrest him 100% and use bad character and anything else I could find.

The drunken neighbour would get the benefit of the doubt, taken home and advised. That’s the difference.

But that depends on me getting the background check. If I found someone in the house and they refused details, I would equally Nick them as my suspicion levels would be heightened and quite lawful.
 
If I found a prolific burglar in someone’s house and he was using a bullshit excuse, I would arrest him 100% and use bad character and anything else I could find.

The drunken neighbour would get the benefit of the doubt, taken home and advised. That’s the difference.

But that depends on me getting the background check. If I found someone in the house and they refused details, I would equally Nick them as my suspicion levels would be heightened and quite lawful.
And which act of parliament sets out the penalties for having " a bad character " exactly ?
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
That prolific burglar hasn't committed an offence and finding out his criminal record won't change that , they would still have to let him go .
I think if a prolific burglar walked into a house then he will be nicked as in this scenario a cop may arrest any one who he reasonably suspects is about to commit an arrestable offence. I think he may well have those grounds here. Unless the law has changed @wetsmonkey :???:
 

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