The police farce.

Without seeing all the video, whilst there is no power to arrest for not wearing a mask, you can be reported for the offence.
If he fails to provide his details then he can’t be reported, so he can be arrested under S24 PACE, so his details can be established and the reported or charged.

Fair enough, although personally I think it's badly thought out legislation. But the copper in the video says,

"You're being detained for not wearing a mask"

Which is clearly not correct.
 

begbie

Old-Salt
The archetypical Bobby should have approached the non-mask wearer and politely asked him to put on a mask for the sake of other peoples sensibilities. If exempt, asked to see some proof like an inhaler or other device and if that person has no proof of exemption, politely suggested that exemptions don't apply in someone else's property and asked the employees of the store what they're wanted to do.
How do you know that didn’t happen, all we see is a short video clip doesn’t show what happened when the Police approached him initially.
 
The archetypical Bobby should have approached the non-mask wearer and politely asked him to put on a mask for the sake of other peoples sensibilities. If exempt, asked to see some proof like an inhaler or other device and if that person has no proof of exemption, politely suggested that exemptions don't apply in someone else's property and asked the employees of the store what they're wanted to do.

There is no legal requirement to show exemption. So any copper who did that would be wasting his time and the time of the store employees. Because I can tell you from personal experience that every large store chain has made it their policy not to ask people to put on masks, or for proof of exemption. And small stores have it tough enough without alienating customers.

I'm sorry, but there's really no reasonable defence for these copper's actions.
 

begbie

Old-Salt
Fair enough, although personally I think it's badly thought out legislation. But the copper in the video says,

"You're being detained for not wearing a mask"

Which is clearly not correct.
The Legislation is a crock of shit.
You can detain people to establish details if you believe they have committed an offence.
Detaining somebody doesn’t mean arresting them.
 

Ursus Major

War Hero
The archetypical Bobby should have approached the non-mask wearer and politely asked him to put on a mask for the sake of other peoples sensibilities. If exempt, asked to see some proof like an inhaler or other device and if that person has no proof of exemption, politely suggested that exemptions don't apply in someone else's property and asked the employees of the store what they're wanted to do.
You specifically don’t need to prove you are exempt.
 
The Legislation is a crock of shit.
You can detain people to establish details if you believe they have committed an offence.
Detaining somebody doesn’t mean arresting them.

Except it's not an offence to not wear a mask if you are exempt. Nor is it an offence to refuse to provide proof of said exemption. So any detention is therefor illegal.

I do agree with you that the legislation is a crock of shit. No doubt thought up by people with very little experience of the real world outside their ivory towers. :rolleyes:
 

shamrock

Old-Salt
Is that the same GMP that fiddled the crime report figures?
The same force that is on special measures. And has been for past 3 years. No sign of improving. But getting worse. The Constabulary head shed under Home Office direction issued the first "not fit for purpose" ticket.
 
The same force that is on special measures. And has been for past 3 years. No sign of improving. But getting worse. The Constabulary head shed under Home Office direction issued the first "not fit for purpose" ticket.
The Lord Mayor needs to get a grip of the PCC







Yes I know both are Andy Burnham
 
You specifically don’t need to prove you are exempt.
Given the whole mask wearing and the law in general, is written by spectacularly intelligent people with not a lot of common sense and nobody is entirely sure of anything. To me a polite enquiry, like asking if the person had an inhaler is a not unreasonable question, to ask someone who is claiming to suffer from acute asthma.

If they're can produce the inhaler, then everyone watching can see the Law was at least applied and the person had a not unreasonable excuse. If that's not good enough, for the covid legal eagles, then the law should be amended and people forced to carry some exemption passport and we can continue down the road of fascism on our tiptoes.

Alternatively, if no inhaler then the person should be told to go about their lives anyway, but perhaps they're should wear a mask in future when shopping before they're start to enforce entry requirements.
 

Ursus Major

War Hero
Given the whole mask wearing and the law in general, is written by spectacularly intelligent people with not a lot of common sense and nobody is entirely sure of anything. To me a polite enquiry, like asking if the person had an inhaler is a not unreasonable question, to ask someone who is claiming to suffer from acute asthma.

If they're can produce the inhaler, then everyone watching can see the Law was at least applied and the person had a not unreasonable excuse. If that's not good enough, for the covid legal eagles, then the law should be amended and people forced to carry some exemption passport and we can continue down the road of fascism on our tiptoes.

Alternatively, if no inhaler then the person should be told to go about their lives anyway, but perhaps they're should wear a mask in future when shopping before they're start to enforce entry requirements.
My wife wears a badge, so as not to put shop staff etc. in a difficult position, it is the decent thing to do. My point however on the law stands.
 
My wife wears a badge, so as not to put shop staff etc. in a difficult position, it is the decent thing to do. My point however on the law stands.
Decency is the key word and I'm personally unconvinced about masks, but will carry one and wear it in shops or travelling on public transport to reassure other people.

My redline is covid passports (I've had two vaccines and covid itself) and the idea someone has to produce their papers is just a step too far in my view and reassurance should only go so far, before it becomes something else.
 

begbie

Old-Salt
The sentence from droid "your under arrest". Plus hands on. 2 separate claims. ££££ for this citizen
He wasn’t arrested, the title of the video is “ Police TRY to arrest me for not wearing a mask”.
The Daily Mail article says he wasn’t arrested.
GMP says no person was arrested.
He was reported for the offence, he can have is day in court or pay the fine.
 

The shooting is believed to have been targeted, Merseyside Police said.

Detective Inspector Phil Ryan said: “The use of firearms on our streets is reckless and incredibly dangerous and we share the shock and disappointment the community will feel this morning hearing this news.

“Thankfully, while serious, the victim will recover from his injuries. But the consequences of firing a gun in a residential area could have been much worse.

Presumably DI Ryan had to sit down and compose the statement, making sure that it ticked all the right boxes and avoided mentioning any unpalatable facts, such as illegally held firearms being used to settle disputes between known criminals.

Good show of empathy for the community, whom I doubt are his neighbours.
 
Decency is the key word and I'm personally unconvinced about masks, but will carry one and wear it in shops or travelling on public transport to reassure other people.

My redline is covid passports (I've had two vaccines and covid itself) and the idea someone has to produce their papers is just a step too far in my view and reassurance should only go so far, before it becomes something else.
It’s the slippery slope to requiring everyone to have an ID card. Or a smartphone on you at all times.
 
UK police chiefs consider public admission of institutional racism

Oh no, do these idiots never learn. This is the real police farce.

Britain’s most senior police leaders are considering making a public admission that their forces are institutionally racist, the Guardian has learned.

High-level discussions began on Thursday and come as their special adviser on race says the declaration is needed if promises of radical reform are to be believed by black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities. More discussions will be held in January, and a decision from police chiefs is expected in February

Policing has been engulfed in a race crisis with a series of controversies over stop and search and use of force, leaving black people’s confidence lower than white people’s. Police chiefs have admitted this damages their legitimacy and ability to fight crime.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) appointed the barrister Abimbola Johnson to chair an independent board to scrutinise a promised suite of reforms.
 
It'll be led by a force with no real problem trying to martyr itself for publicity. And when one goes, the met will be castigated if it doesn't follow suit. It won't help build trust with communities. It will just push everything back again. I'm mortified they are considering it. And the phraseology, it's so harmful. If they had said 'structural inequality' that would be, in the main, what the problem such as it is actually is. Instead every person already not enamored with police will use it to justify their belief that officers go out explicitly to bully their own community. I hope this news is not gen.
 

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