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The police farce.



So can't answer the questions still?

As it happens I'm all for routine arming but can't see it happening for a while for 2 reasons.

Firstly cost and secondly given how easy the public and judiciary will hang an officer out for the slightest minor use of force are you honestly surprised that many don't have faith that they will be supported if they use lethal force?

But again.. you knew that didn't you?

Did the nasty MoD police tell you no once or something? Maybe they didn't snap to attention and listen to your wide range of policing experience? I mean I'm mearely degree educated, with infantry and home office experience which means I'm only allowed blue crayons to eat rather than purple.



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well precious, if The Government decided to arm the Police, it will have to put in place the legislation to support them. Really not hard, is it?

How come NIPS officers don’t indulge in all the teary eyed handwringing over firearms that their more sensitive mainland equivalents do.

But carry on being the Police Farce run by Chief Constables who think they are running the uniformed branch of Social Services.
 

Green_Homer

War Hero
well precious, if The Government decided to arm the Police, it will have to put in place the legislation to support them. Really not hard, is it?

How come NIPS officers don’t indulge in all the teary eyed handwringing over firearms that their more sensitive mainland equivalents do.

But carry on being the Police Farce run by Chief Constables who think they are running the uniformed branch of Social Services.
Again you still fail to answer the questions

You do know that the legislation already exists don't you but that it's subject, quite rightly to interpretation to the circumstances, which sadly in the modern age is increasingly swayed by political and Facebook opinion?

I'm sure you can Google use of force in common law, s.3 criminal law act and s.117 PACE.

I never knew there was a force in the UK called NIPS... Gosh it's like you are trying to hide behind clever words / interpretations again

We do have a force called PSNI however - you might be aware they have had a little problem over there with direct threats to officers lives which may have helped shift things along. You choose to ignore that I'm pro routine arming on the mainland and the reasons, rightly or wrongly which are preventing this.

I do hope that you are feeling pleased with yourself and hope that you are enjoying the sunny weather we are having. Obviously you would clearly be able to earn a fortune as a consultant to the police

If you are public spirited and don't want the money than you can show everyone what to do and become a special.

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Bodenplatte

War Hero
well precious, if The Government decided to arm the Police, it will have to put in place the legislation to support them. Really not hard, is it?

How come NIPS officers don’t indulge in all the teary eyed handwringing over firearms that their more sensitive mainland equivalents do.

But carry on being the Police Farce run by Chief Constables who think they are running the uniformed branch of Social Services.
The legislation is already in force. Any decision to arm police routinely would merely be an administrative process.
 

endure

GCM
As an aside I bought myself a security camera this week. Not that I need one just as a new toy.

I left it running overnight pointing down the back garden and I was quite surprised to see that it had recorded a policeman wandering round my back garden at 2.30 yesterday morning.
 

Green_Homer

War Hero
As an aside I bought myself a security camera this week. Not that I need one just as a new toy.

I left it running overnight pointing down the back garden and I was quite surprised to see that it had recorded a policeman wandering round my back garden at 2.30 yesterday morning.
I'd send it back as faulty... Photex says you never see the police

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Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
As an aside I bought myself a security camera this week. Not that I need one just as a new toy.

I left it running overnight pointing down the back garden and I was quite surprised to see that it had recorded a policeman wandering round my back garden at 2.30 yesterday morning.
Had you left underwear out on the line?
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
But carry on being the Police Farce run by Chief Constables who think they are running the uniformed branch of Social Services.

They kind of are...

How much time do you think police spend on MARAC nonsense?

More correct maybe to say they are the social engineering arm of the social services.
 
I might as well have. It took hours and I wouldn't bother handing anything in in the future.

Electronic scales, three bongs, lots if empty ziplock bags with weird symbols on them, several mechanical crushers, spoons with some sort of residue on them, a big pile of small pieces of clingfilm with white residue, half a dozen small bags with white power in the bottom.

Faced with this evidence of drug dealing plod decided that the white powder couldn't actually be drugs, as a druggie wouldn't have left them.

At no point did they ask for the name of the drug dealing tenants. Neither on the phone nor at the station.

Now if I'd have smeared boot polish all over my face and demanded that they knelt and felated me... Different matter.

Possession of non of the above is criminal offence, less the residue. The small residue of powder in the bottom of the bags will amount to virtually nothing and would cost £hundreds to test and return.

If the people were stupid enough to admit that it was was theirs, they may get a small fine for possession. No junkie faced with that, is going to admit it.

You are better putting it in a bin, as the police will have to book it in, store it and then have it destroyed, again probably costing £hundreds.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Possession of non of the above is criminal offence, less the residue. The small residue of powder in the bottom of the bags will amount to virtually nothing and would cost £hundreds to test and return.

If the people were stupid enough to admit that it was was theirs, they may get a small fine for possession. No junkie faced with that, is going to admit it.

You are better putting it in a bin, as the police will have to book it in, store it and then have it destroyed, again probably costing £hundreds.

Quite...

I'm such a snowflake for assuming the police might have been interested in such things.

Indeed, I will write them a letter thanking these right thinking hard working public sector heroes for taking several hours of their time to educate me.

Clearly it is me that is the laughing stock here, and I apologise for my cuckliness, my discimination and prejudice against vulnerable youths and my internal patriarchal toxic masculinity.

Hell if I can transition completely to a right thinking public sector hero type , buy a single knee pad, lube up my arse and repent for my entire civilisation's existence then maybe I too could become a police officer some day!
 
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Possession of non of the above is criminal offence, less the residue.

It's a shame that the OP Bobbies didn't have that attitude with the security guards?

"I understand what you're saying, but you have him recorded on your CCTV, he's known to us for doing this, just ignore him, he isn't actually doing anything wrong. FYI, I have much more important things to do than come down to your shopping centre."
 
It's a shame that the OP Bobbies didn't have that attitude with the security guards?

"I understand what you're saying, but you have him recorded on your CCTV, he's known to us for doing this, just ignore him, he isn't actually doing anything wrong. FYI, I have much more important things to do than come down to your shopping centre."

How are the Security, or the call handler, to know who he is and if he's trouble maker? Not like they can run a NASCH search is it, as you can at best only have two of those fields.
 
How are the Security, or the call handler, to know who he is and if he's trouble maker? Not like they can run a NASCH search is it, as you can at best only have two of those fields.

Turn the towns cctv around to zoom in on him and say "It's that twat again."
 
Turn the towns cctv around to zoom in on him and say "It's that twat again."

You've still got multiple organisations involved, and need to have knowledge that its "that twat". There's no way to shoot CCTV from one to the other, and here's the kicker, CCTV footage is considered private data under the data protection act, so needs to be controlled, including distribution.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
You've still got multiple organisations involved, and need to have knowledge that its "that twat". There's no way to shoot CCTV from one to the other, and here's the kicker, CCTV footage is considered private data under the data protection act, so needs to be controlled, including distribution.

But Karen can flick through your private photos just because she has a suspicion that you don't think she's a very good police officer?
 
I've recently taken up street photography with an old film camera. I have twice been gently questioned about taking photos on stations but as soon as the BTP or station staff see I am a sad old 'amateur photographer' with a 1950s Zeiss Contaflex, they walk away muttering 'why doesn't granddad get a fuçking digital camera?'

On Leicester Square I was taking photos two weeks ago when a security guard walked out from one of the cinema entrances and tried to block my way, asking whether I had a permit. I just walked past him and ignored him. How many other people have cameras in Leicester Square? I bet they don't challenge the thousands of people talking selfies.

Anyway the Zeiss Ikon Contaflex is a bad arse looking camera. I also now ask before I take photos of crowds on stations, out of courtesy.View attachment 495445

Nice bit of kit. I think your post sums up the situation perfectly:- it’s all too easy for photographers to get all militant and “I know my rights,” when it really is much easier to communicate. If you talk to people reasonably they’ll usually be fine- perhaps even suggesting a better vantage point. I would say the old days of street photography have gone, for instance I’d never take candid pictures of kids without their parents’ prior knowledge and permission, which means that you might miss “the moment.”
Also taking crowd scenes- especially stuff like the crowded beach pics seen in recent “social distancing” stories- you’ll probably find there’s one bloke who sees himself as a bit of an Alpha, and takes offence on behalf of everyone else. I’ve found the best way to deal with these is to tell them what I’m doing and why and offer to crop him out of the pic, or if you’ve got plenty without him, just delete the ones with him in. Make some joke asking whether he’s on the run or in the SAS to make him feel a bit silly. If you need more pics just keep him with you as you take them or tell him to turn his back to the camera.
Railway platforms were always a no-no without clearing it first.
Funny though isn’t it? Today’s phones are capable of taking great photos and everyone is photographing everything all the time (I had to tell some scrote the law after he saw me doing a court snatch of some nonce outside Crown Court and he was all set to go into the courtroom and do some pictures on his phone :)).
But it will still be the bloke with the “proper” camera who gets asked what he’s up to. A few years ago the equivalent would have been to ignore the bloke with the 35mm Leica but interrogate the geezer in the beret with his easel up doing an oil painting!
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Nice bit of kit. I think your post sums up the situation perfectly:- it’s all too easy for photographers to get all militant and “I know my rights,” when it really is much easier to communicate. If you talk to people reasonably they’ll usually be fine- perhaps even suggesting a better vantage point. I would say the old days of street photography have gone, for instance I’d never take candid pictures of kids without their parents’ prior knowledge and permission, which means that you might miss “the moment.”
Also taking crowd scenes- especially stuff like the crowded beach pics seen in recent “social distancing” stories- you’ll probably find there’s one bloke who sees himself as a bit of an Alpha, and takes offence on behalf of everyone else. I’ve found the best way to deal with these is to tell them what I’m doing and why and offer to crop him out of the pic, or if you’ve got plenty without him, just delete the ones with him in. Make some joke asking whether he’s on the run or in the SAS to make him feel a bit silly. If you need more pics just keep him with you as you take them or tell him to turn his back to the camera.
Railway platforms were always a no-no without clearing it first.
Funny though isn’t it? Today’s phones are capable of taking great photos and everyone is photographing everything all the time (I had to tell some scrote the law after he saw me doing a court snatch of some nonce outside Crown Court and he was all set to go into the courtroom and do some pictures on his phone :)).
But it will still be the bloke with the “proper” camera who gets asked what he’s up to. A few years ago the equivalent would have been to ignore the bloke with the 35mm Leica but interrogate the geezer in the beret with his easel up doing an oil painting!

Particularly odd given that phones have cameras on both sides..

Hence you can't actually tell whether someone is selfying ( as I think it is called ) or filming in front of them.

Personally I'd consider suspicion of photographers to be suspicious. What activity do they not wish the public to know about?
 
It's a shame that the OP Bobbies didn't have that attitude with the security guards?

"I understand what you're saying, but you have him recorded on your CCTV, he's known to us for doing this, just ignore him, he isn't actually doing anything wrong. FYI, I have much more important things to do than come down to your shopping centre."
Though he was doing wrong.
If they got to the point of arresting him and then watched his footage they would have found that he was filming into the shopping centre, and was lieing when claiming that he was only taking photos of the sign outside the shopping centre until security came out.
It’s hardly major crime, but shopping centres are protected (due to bombings etc)
However ultimately not a lot would have happened to him.
Your drugs evidence was circumstantial - there are some people who do actually use bongs (water pipes) to smoke flavored tobacco.
The white powder is very likely to be drugs, but half a dozen bags with a tiny amount at the bottom are not evidence of dealing. They are used
The grinders are for weed / marijuana (or for legal herbal products)

You have found items relating to their drug use
It wasn’t worth their effort
 
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