The Police and the Home Office

Do the Police have the authority to over rule a HO officer executing a legal order? Presumably a court order if it was an extradition action?

paging @wetsmonkey @Provost any Scot polis posters?

I'm not sure how it works in Scotland, but in England & Wales anyone (including the police) who frustrates or obstructs the execution of a lawful court order is lining themselves up for a world of pain. I can't see that Scotland would be very different in that respect.

There might be mitigation if the execution of the court order would, then and there, result in a real risk to life or limb. Perhaps, also, where there was an obvious fault in the court order where, for example, it was made out in the wrong name or address.

I'm not absolutely clear as to what happened in the Scottish case referred to.
 
Do the Police have the authority to over rule a HO officer executing a legal order? Presumably a court order if it was an extradition action?

paging @wetsmonkey @Provost any Scot polis posters?
I think that he has the power at the time to order their release if their is a risk of a significant public order situation which could result in harm which is not proportionate to what they want to achieve.

The order is still in force though and the Chief Super should make arrangements with immigration to reattend with enough officers and resources on scene to revent any further public order.

In laymans terms, go in mob handed.
 

HCL

LE
I think that he has the power at the time to order their release if their is a risk of a significant public order situation which could result in harm which is not proportionate to what they want to achieve.

The order is still in force though and the Chief Super should make arrangements with immigration to reattend with enough officers and resources on scene to revent any further public order.

In laymans terms, go in mob handed.

Thanks
 

HCL

LE
I'm not sure how it works in Scotland, but in England & Wales anyone (including the police) who frustrates or obstructs the execution of a lawful court order is lining themselves up for a world of pain. I can't see that Scotland would be very different in that respect.

There might be mitigation if the execution of the court order would, then and there, result in a real risk to life or limb. Perhaps, also, where there was an obvious fault in the court order where, for example, it was made out in the wrong name or address.

I'm not absolutely clear as to what happened in the Scottish case referred to.

Thanks
 

HCL

LE
No they don't but perhaps if the Chief Superintendent with no bottle spoke to a Chief Immigration Officer with no bottle, and pointed out that he was going to be standing down all of his plods back to the station, that may perhaps affect any subsequent tactical decisions by the Immigration Removals team.
Just a random thought from a bloke living abroad though.
Probably wrong though.

Who knows, mucker.
There were some weird crowd control orders in NI in my time but I don't recall us ever walking off the job and just letting the scrotes snatchees go.
 
Wrong tactics on the wrong day on the wrong side of a city.
Yet another precedent set which will never be recovered from, just keep pushing at that open door.
It worked in Bristol and look how that worked out.
Stand by soon for a UK equivalent of that strangely quaint American theme of 'sanctuary cities', you heard it here first.
WTF is training these people?
 
I'm not sure how it works in Scotland, but in England & Wales anyone (including the police) who frustrates or obstructs the execution of a lawful court order is lining themselves up for a world of pain. I can't see that Scotland would be very different in that respect.

There might be mitigation if the execution of the court order would, then and there, result in a real risk to life or limb. Perhaps, also, where there was an obvious fault in the court order where, for example, it was made out in the wrong name or address.

I'm not absolutely clear as to what happened in the Scottish case referred to.

It looks to me as if the police were there in support of the immigration officers. The immigration officers would have had the relevant warrant signed off, presumably at Inspector level or above, so that would be CS SEO grade. I would presume the police were there to prevent public disorder and not be the ones to determine the correctness of the court order. It would not surprise me if the IOs were advised by the police to let them go for fear of violent confrontation which would be the pragmatic thing to do if they could be picked up again at a time less likely to cause a confrontation. It does, however, once again show that the police are unwilling to face up to mob rule which puts them in a negative light and enforces a sense of victory for the protesters that might encourage them to take such action again.

I know that with limited numbers the police can only do so much with their resources. I sincerely hope this is one area that Boris will address after the issue of the pandemic is laid to rest. I am massively in favour of recruiting tens of thousands more police officers. I know a lot of policing is intelligence led but I also think the police should be highly visible on the streets once again.
 
It looks to me as if the police were there in support of the immigration officers. The immigration officers would have had the relevant warrant signed off, presumably at Inspector level or above, so that would be CS SEO grade. I would presume the police were there to prevent public disorder and not be the ones to determine the correctness of the court order. It would not surprise me if the IOs were advised by the police to let them go for fear of violent confrontation which would be the pragmatic thing to do if they could be picked up again at a time less likely to cause a confrontation. It does, however, once again show that the police are unwilling to face up to mob rule which puts them in a negative light and enforces a sense of victory for the protesters that might encourage them to take such action again.

I know that with limited numbers the police can only do so much with their resources. I sincerely hope this is one area that Boris will address after the issue of the pandemic is laid to rest. I am massively in favour of recruiting tens of thousands more police officers. I know a lot of policing is intelligence led but I also think the police should be highly visible on the streets once again.
I understand that, but in an earlier post I expressed “surprise” :rolleyes: at the narrative of the immigrants being “released by” Police Scotland, this narrative being pushed by PS themselves.
 
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Do the Police have the authority to over rule a HO officer executing a legal order? Presumably a court order if it was an extradition action?

paging @wetsmonkey @Provost any Scot polis posters?

No, I don’t think so. It was probably a joint decision, based on the likelihood of a public order situation and an extended standoff with no chance of getting out of there.
 

Gabion Groyne

Old-Salt
No, I don’t think so. It was probably a joint decision, based on the likelihood of a public order situation and an extended standoff with no chance of getting out of there.
That would suggest poor intelligence, poor planning and poor execution leading to the poor outcome.

If the correct outcome is to be achieved it will come at greatly increased cost, requiring further intelligence and likely involving larger numbers of officers at a different time of day with a 'Neighbourhood Watch' already alerted.
 
That would suggest poor intelligence, poor planning and poor execution leading to the poor outcome.

If the correct outcome is to be achieved it will come at greatly increased cost, requiring further intelligence and likely involving larger numbers of officers at a different time of day with a 'Neighbourhood Watch' already alerted.

Are you referring to the immigration enforcement people, whose job it was, or the police who were called to assist when it went tits up?
 
No, I don’t think so. It was probably a joint decision, based on the likelihood of a public order situation and an extended standoff with no chance of getting out of there.
Agreed, and therefore not how Police Scotland have been portraying it as them having “released” the men.

The Home Office, incidentally, make the point that the two Indian Sikhs involved were compliant throughout.

I’ve supported refugee cases and for example the current campaign on behalf of Afghan former local staff, but the remarks about the “British State” from the alleged Afghan human rights leader in Glasgow do not help.
 
Multiple media reported and some are still reporting that the two gentlemen were Muslim, but I see that some including BBC have now changed this narrative to “in the heart of a Muslim community during Eid”.

PS - In case anyone is still missing this point, the two men in question aren’t Muslims at all, but Indian Sikhs. (And how racist was the assumption because of the colour of their skin that they had to be Muslim?)
 
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Why would they do that when the ones getting taken away are Sikhs :grin:

Well now they'll have to go around looking for them all over again.
























They'll Sikh them here and they'll Sikh them there.
 

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