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The PFA is dead. Long live the PFA!

The RAPTC already has large numbers who are professionally qualified, etc. It also had a number of highly qualified civilians brought in specifically for these studies and Project Thor.

Unless they come up with the answer certain people want to hear, though, rather like the studies on women in GCC roles (lets not go down there here!), it doesn't seem to matter what the answer is if it isn't what those certain people want to hear.
astonished John is such an expert on this, given that he left the army over a decade ago...
 
astonished John is such an expert on this, given that he left the army over a decade ago...
Actually over two, but I suppose your normal level of accuracy's only to be expected.

Professional qualifications in the RAPTC are hardly something new (although a lack of them, which has to be what you are unwittingly implying, would be) and taking on civilians for the studies and Thor was not only widely reported but the posts were well advertised.

Hardly highly classified .....

Edit: FWIW the revised 'PFA plus' was a joint collaboration between Chichester Uni's Dept of Human Physiology and the RAPTC, plus a few consultant experts, which took three years to come up with the tests.
 
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I fail to understand the difference in times for these entry tests.

Parachute Regiment - Run Time 09.40
Infantry – Run Time 12.45
Royal Artillery, Armoured Corps, Royal Engineers, Household Cavalry – Run Time 13.15
Royal Signals, Army Air Corps, Royal Logistic Corps, Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers, Adjutant Generals Corps, Army Medical Services, Royal Army Veterinary Corps, Intelligence Corps, and Corps of Army Music – Run Time 14.00

It's like acknowledging everybody can be a mong except the Paras.
 
I fail to understand the difference in times for these entry tests.

Parachute Regiment - Run Time 09.40
Infantry – Run Time 12.45
Royal Artillery, Armoured Corps, Royal Engineers, Household Cavalry – Run Time 13.15
Royal Signals, Army Air Corps, Royal Logistic Corps, Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers, Adjutant Generals Corps, Army Medical Services, Royal Army Veterinary Corps, Intelligence Corps, and Corps of Army Music – Run Time 14.00

It's like acknowledging everybody can be a mong except the Paras.
The idea was to get them in the door then train them to be faster. I think it was 11.30 run, 2 pull ups and a minute sit ups (bleep test) for the entrance test when I joined, but at the end of ten weeks (I think it was by the end of the 9th week) basic training you had to do 10.30, 8 pull up and 3 minutes of sit ups or you were back squadded.
Where its all gone wrong is that fuckwit senior officers, (when they are not posing with minorities) come up with the bright idea that you no longer have to pass your PFA to pass out so the burden falls onto the unit to sort them out. Its not working, but the fuckwit senior officers dont care, they'll just wait for the easier tests to come it before claiming what a great success the new fitness regime is.
 
Given the current staff shortages and painful recruitment system, it would make sense to have a true 'assessment' of fitness; as long as it is supported with a meaningful, progressive training regime. However, my previous experience suggests not, when the unit I was in was getting soldiers out of training who had yet to get a green PFA or complete an 8 mile CFT (phase 1 CFT was 6 miles carrying marshmellows).
 
It's like acknowledging everybody can be a mong except the Paras.
Ummm .... yes.
The reality is that 95% of male recruits pass at 'infantry standard', but that's still a pretty 'mong' standard.

What makes it considerably worse is that it's been shown beyond any possible doubt that the slowest 20% of recruits are over twice as likely to be MD'd as the quickest 20%, and over six times (6.61 IIRC) as likely to be injured and need remedial training.
The idea was to get them in the door then train them to be faster. I think it was 11.30 run, 2 pull ups and a minute sit ups (bleep test) for the entrance test when I joined, but at the end of ten weeks (I think it was by the end of the 9th week) basic training you had to do 10.30, 8 pull up and 3 minutes of sit ups or you were back squadded.
Where its all gone wrong is that fuckwit senior officers, (when they are not posing with minorities) come up with the bright idea that you no longer have to pass your PFA to pass out so the burden falls onto the unit to sort them out. Its not working, but the fuckwit senior officers dont care, they'll just wait for the easier tests to come it before claiming what a great success the new fitness regime is.
The problem is it goes deeper than that, @stacker1. Even if they were all back-termed until they passed they'd still be a liability once in their unit as they'd still be far more likely to be injured.

If the selection level isn't high enough to screen them out they'll always be a liability however long and progressive the training is.
 
The point I was making about the entry tests....

Parachute Regiment - Run Time 09.40
Infantry – Run Time 12.45
Royal Artillery, Armoured Corps, Royal Engineers, Household Cavalry – Run Time 13.15
Royal Signals, Army Air Corps, Royal Logistic Corps, Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers, Adjutant Generals Corps, Army Medical Services, Royal Army Veterinary Corps, Intelligence Corps, and Corps of Army Music – Run Time 14.00

...Is they look like the Army is saying there it is OK for different units to have different standards for entry because fitness is less important in different units. Which is exactly what the Army is saying. I thought Afghanistan had highlighted that all soldiers can be required to step up to the plate, so to speak, when neccessary, even reserves, therefore debunking the illusion that REMFS don't need to train physically or militarily to a decent standard.
 
The point I was making about the entry tests....

Parachute Regiment - Run Time 09.40
Infantry – Run Time 12.45
Royal Artillery, Armoured Corps, Royal Engineers, Household Cavalry – Run Time 13.15
Royal Signals, Army Air Corps, Royal Logistic Corps, Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers, Adjutant Generals Corps, Army Medical Services, Royal Army Veterinary Corps, Intelligence Corps, and Corps of Army Music – Run Time 14.00

...Is they look like the Army is saying there it is OK for different units to have different standards for entry because fitness is less important in different units. Which is exactly what the Army is saying. I thought Afghanistan had highlighted that all soldiers can be required to step up to the plate, so to speak, when neccessary, even reserves, therefore debunking the illusion that REMFS don't need to train physically or militarily to a decent standard.
Dave, I couldn't agree with you more - particularly as while 95% of male recruits can pass recruit entry at inf standard so there isn't that much disparity between units, at least at the start, little more than 4% of female recruits can. That's a massive disparity.

It's at least arguable that in GCC units women will have to be 'as good as the men' but how can that apply to non-GCC units, CS and CSS, when the thousands of women already serving have never had to be and over 95% probably never will be?

Are 95% of serving women going to fail and be hoofed out? Are 95% of women currently passing recruit selection going to fail and be turned away?

Somehow I don't think so, leaving the only 'gender free' options available that the recruit selection standard for all (possibly except inf / cav) is based on that of women currently passing, and that the PFA standard is based below the lowest 5% of the Army.

I don't think any comment's necessary ...
 
Given the current staff shortages and painful recruitment system, it would make sense to have a true 'assessment' of fitness; as long as it is supported with a meaningful, progressive training regime. However, my previous experience suggests not, when the unit I was in was getting soldiers out of training who had yet to get a green PFA or complete an 8 mile CFT (phase 1 CFT was 6 miles carrying marshmellows).
Current policy is that you don’t pass out of Initial Trade Training (Phase 2) until you have passed an 8 mile AFT carrying the requisite weight.

The current fitness standards may be rubbish but If Corps/Regts/Individuals are ignoring those standards (and it is apparent they are) and passing people out into the Field Army, it doesn’t matter one jot what the new tests are, they will continue to be ignored!
 
Would love to see a CO have the balls to return a newly passed off recruit to ATR as 'unfit for service'. Can you imagine the sheer panic? :)
 
Current policy is that you don’t pass out of Initial Trade Training (Phase 2) until you have passed an 8 mile AFT carrying the requisite weight.

The current fitness standards may be rubbish but If Corps/Regts/Individuals are ignoring those standards (and it is apparent they are) and passing people out into the Field Army, it doesn’t matter one jot what the new tests are, they will continue to be ignored!
We are starting to get MNDs posting in from phase 2.
I suppose it saves time later in the regiment because they don't have to go to the doctors to get on the biff.
 
It appears (and I emphasise appears) that the one role-specific test the Army has, namely the "Casualty extraction from a vehicle – RAC only (40 – 110kg pull using a rope)" is now 50 - 70 kg (40 / 60 kg weight plus 10 kg rope) more akin to a dead lift, with the weight having to be held for 3 seconds:
TELEMMGLPICT000175310619_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqtkFNGfLQhkpVPeNfby9bQSy0D0hOUEQyLH9a5yxWECY.jpeg
 
View attachment 354246

What is this shit?

If the point is to simulate extracting a casualty from a vehicle just get a weighted dummy (The Fire Service use them) and put it in a vehicle.

The same dummy can be used for other tests and training including battlefield casualty drills.

Looking at the picture above it appears a recipe for disaster, we can only wait for the injuries and compensation claims from such exercise.

On a final point, if this is meant to replace the PFA (or whatever it’s called this week) well done for a massive and unnecessary cost increase which will see a great reduction in these tests being conducted, for the simple fact a PFA could be completed in a 40 minute session with minimal logistics. For this pile of shít you are going to need a troop of Pioneers to set it up; oh yes, that’s right, they were binned in yet another calamitous decision.
 
Are you still allowed to take your troop out for a run in this enlightened, scientifically-led age? Minimum logistics, nil cost (apart from doing it in Army time) very little planning required and an excellent way of bonding the troop together, apart from the biffs, obviously.
 
Are you still allowed to take your troop out for a run in this enlightened, scientifically-led age? Minimum logistics, nil cost (apart from doing it in Army time) very little planning required and an excellent way of bonding the troop together, apart from the biffs, obviously.
You can if you are ETL trained and your PTI says it's ok. So normally it doesn't happen.
 
View attachment 354246

What is this shit?

If the point is to simulate extracting a casualty from a vehicle just get a weighted dummy (The Fire Service use them) and put it in a vehicle.

The same dummy can be used for other tests and training including battlefield casualty drills.

Looking at the picture above it appears a recipe for disaster, we can only wait for the injuries and compensation claims from such exercise.

On a final point, if this is meant to replace the PFA (or whatever it’s called this week) well done for a massive and unnecessary cost increase which will see a great reduction in these tests being conducted, for the simple fact a PFA could be completed in a 40 minute session with minimal logistics. For this pile of shít you are going to need a troop of Pioneers to set it up; oh yes, that’s right, they were binned in yet another calamitous decision.
Glad you said it, not me, @dingerr! ... and that took the combined brains of the RAPTC and Chichester University's Department of Human Physiology, plus a few assorted experts, three years to come up with.

... and if you thought that was "shit", have a look at some of the vids made on the new fitness tests in the last couple of days. Seriously unbelievable, from warming up doing bunny hops in slow time with a med ball (the ultimate in injuries and compensation claims, binned over 30 years ago) to the 'casualty drag'.
Minimum logistics, nil cost (apart from doing it in Army time) very little planning required and an excellent way of bonding the troop together, apart from the biffs, obviously.
Bonding the troop together? ... and in Army time? Have you lost your mind???
 
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