http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=506654&in_page_id=1770
Of interest to those ZULU war fans out there.
Of interest to those ZULU war fans out there.
The pen is mighter than the Assegi ?
- Thread starter shaka
- Start date
Wonder which variety nicked Montys pen used for the surrender of the German Army in NW Europe? According to Monty it was only a common-or-garden nib on a stick type, typically bought for about a shilling. Bet thousands of the actual pen have changed hands in Petticoat Lane over the years? 
Good this one is back though.
No.9
ps Shimmy Lovats berry was nicked off him while he lay stretchered out on a hospital ship back from Normandy
Good this one is back though.
No.9
ps Shimmy Lovats berry was nicked off him while he lay stretchered out on a hospital ship back from Normandy
Makes you wonder though doesn't it, 250 quid plus 75 quid costs for nicking a 'priceless' artifact which could probably be sold for up to 10,000 quid? That's a deterrent to other sticky fingered employees then.
Excuse.... I wasn't paid what I thought I should be, I was young and I'm a reformed character now? He had it for only 3 years. With his education I would have thought he could have figured out a way to get it back to it's real owners anonymously if he really wanted to.
Open the flood gates of disgruntled employees nicking valuable items on the grounds that 'he got away with it'
Excuse.... I wasn't paid what I thought I should be, I was young and I'm a reformed character now? He had it for only 3 years. With his education I would have thought he could have figured out a way to get it back to it's real owners anonymously if he really wanted to.
Open the flood gates of disgruntled employees nicking valuable items on the grounds that 'he got away with it'
Yes, fair comment. Mong typing again I blame the auto spelling corrector. 
I should of course have typed 'beret' not 'berry' as there appears to be no reference to Lovat ever wearing fruit. 
Here you are Cuddles, Lovat in a beret resplendent with the Scouts' 'Je Suis Prest' badge.
The Green beret, introduced in '42, distributed on a staggered as possible/available basis. Senior officers often 'doing their own thing' from time to time, so at various stages he may well have worn any you suggest.
The story of his beret being nicked was relayed to me by a Veteran who said he had a mate who knew the bloke who claimed to have nicked Lovat's beret. I trust what my mate said, and he said he trusted when his mate told him. As for the man making the original claim, who knows?
Sadly I've heard of several cases of the wounded, and even killed, having their effects tea-leafed in WWII. When a very good friend of mine left Bari hospital in '45 after recovering from a near fatal would, all his 'collectibles' from 3 1/2 years were missing from his kitbag.
Even official robbery. Two men of No.42 Cdo RM said when they came back from the Far East, lots of men had Nippon officer's swords as souvenirs - apparently not hard to come by out there after the war. When they docked at Southampton, HM Customs confiscated the lot. No receipts, no 'you have to apply to get them back', just you've lost that mate. Firearms I can understand, (not that Britain wasn't awash with them after the war and in the 50's), but edge weapons?
No.9
I should of course have typed 'beret' not 'berry' as there appears to be no reference to Lovat ever wearing fruit. Here you are Cuddles, Lovat in a beret resplendent with the Scouts' 'Je Suis Prest' badge.
The Green beret, introduced in '42, distributed on a staggered as possible/available basis. Senior officers often 'doing their own thing' from time to time, so at various stages he may well have worn any you suggest.
The story of his beret being nicked was relayed to me by a Veteran who said he had a mate who knew the bloke who claimed to have nicked Lovat's beret. I trust what my mate said, and he said he trusted when his mate told him. As for the man making the original claim, who knows?
Sadly I've heard of several cases of the wounded, and even killed, having their effects tea-leafed in WWII. When a very good friend of mine left Bari hospital in '45 after recovering from a near fatal would, all his 'collectibles' from 3 1/2 years were missing from his kitbag.
Even official robbery. Two men of No.42 Cdo RM said when they came back from the Far East, lots of men had Nippon officer's swords as souvenirs - apparently not hard to come by out there after the war. When they docked at Southampton, HM Customs confiscated the lot. No receipts, no 'you have to apply to get them back', just you've lost that mate. Firearms I can understand, (not that Britain wasn't awash with them after the war and in the 50's), but edge weapons?
No.9
No.9 said:
Yes, fair comment. Mong typing again I blame the auto spelling corrector. I should of course have typed 'beret' not 'berry' as there appears to be no reference to Lovat ever wearing fruit.
Here you are Cuddles, Lovat in a beret resplendent with the Scouts' 'Je Suis Prest' badge.
The Green beret, introduced in '42, distributed on a staggered as possible/available basis. Senior officers often 'doing their own thing' from time to time, so at various stages he may well have worn any you suggest.
The story of his beret being nicked was relayed to me by a Veteran who said he had a mate who knew the bloke who claimed to have nicked Lovat's beret. I trust what my mate said, and he said he trusted when his mate told him. As for the man making the original claim, who knows?
Sadly I've heard of several cases of the wounded, and even killed, having their effects tea-leafed in WWII. When a very good friend of mine left Bari hospital in '45 after recovering from a near fatal would, all his 'collectibles' from 3 1/2 years were missing from his kitbag.
Even official robbery. Two men of No.42 Cdo RM said when they came back from the Far East, lots of men had Nippon officer's swords as souvenirs - apparently not hard to come by out there after the war. When they docked at Southampton, HM Customs confiscated the lot. No receipts, no 'you have to apply to get them back', just you've lost that mate. Firearms I can understand, (not that Britain wasn't awash with them after the war and in the 50's), but edge weapons?
No.9
I should of course have typed 'beret' not 'berry' as there appears to be no reference to Lovat ever wearing fruit. Here you are Cuddles, Lovat in a beret resplendent with the Scouts' 'Je Suis Prest' badge.
The Green beret, introduced in '42, distributed on a staggered as possible/available basis. Senior officers often 'doing their own thing' from time to time, so at various stages he may well have worn any you suggest.
The story of his beret being nicked was relayed to me by a Veteran who said he had a mate who knew the bloke who claimed to have nicked Lovat's beret. I trust what my mate said, and he said he trusted when his mate told him. As for the man making the original claim, who knows?
Sadly I've heard of several cases of the wounded, and even killed, having their effects tea-leafed in WWII. When a very good friend of mine left Bari hospital in '45 after recovering from a near fatal would, all his 'collectibles' from 3 1/2 years were missing from his kitbag.
Even official robbery. Two men of No.42 Cdo RM said when they came back from the Far East, lots of men had Nippon officer's swords as souvenirs - apparently not hard to come by out there after the war. When they docked at Southampton, HM Customs confiscated the lot. No receipts, no 'you have to apply to get them back', just you've lost that mate. Firearms I can understand, (not that Britain wasn't awash with them after the war and in the 50's), but edge weapons?
No.9
As for the berry/beret thing, 'twas meant but as a gentle jape...
No.9 said:
Ah, I understand. 
If you're looking to buy a new one, the type combined with a calculator is highly recommended.
Enables you to count on your own support.
No.9
If you're looking to buy a new one, the type combined with a calculator is highly recommended.
Enables you to count on your own support.
No.9
Yes the badge is where youd expect it to be for a balmoral, like in this picture of early days No.2 ,
however, respective Cdo protocols could and did vary.
To me, Lovats headgear looks like a beret and not a balmoral shape, amount of material, no visible tapes at the rear.
The fuller picture below shows Lovat with Charlie Vaughan (Achnacarry CO), around the time Lovat was made-up to Brigadier of 1 SS Bde prior to Normandy. Note Charlies badge slap bang in the middle and the beret pulled straight back another senior officer doing his own thing
No.9
however, respective Cdo protocols could and did vary.
To me, Lovats headgear looks like a beret and not a balmoral shape, amount of material, no visible tapes at the rear.
The fuller picture below shows Lovat with Charlie Vaughan (Achnacarry CO), around the time Lovat was made-up to Brigadier of 1 SS Bde prior to Normandy. Note Charlies badge slap bang in the middle and the beret pulled straight back another senior officer doing his own thing
No.9
No.9 said:
Yes the badge is where youd expect it to be for a balmoral, like in this picture of early days No.2 ,
however, respective Cdo protocols could and did vary.
however, respective Cdo protocols could and did vary.
My first thoughts on the Lovat photo were also that it was a Balmoral.
There seems to be ambiguity in defining and what defines Tams and Balmorals. If you look at say http://uk.geocities.com/barensteel/clancrest.html
they illustrate this as the Tam O'Shanter____________and this as the Balmoral
________________
I've never worn either but usually in a military context I know them as Balmorals. That said I've heard some who wore them refer to Tams?
Your example of a Balmoral however, is surely very different to Lovat's beret? The bottom trim in his photo is characteristic beret and the Tam/Balmoral should have a characteristic wide band at it's base, no?
No.9
they illustrate this as the Tam O'Shanter____________and this as the Balmoral
I've never worn either but usually in a military context I know them as Balmorals. That said I've heard some who wore them refer to Tams?
Your example of a Balmoral however, is surely very different to Lovat's beret? The bottom trim in his photo is characteristic beret and the Tam/Balmoral should have a characteristic wide band at it's base, no?
No.9
The band could possibly be a variation in design or just partially concealed by the style of wearing. I remember observing that officers of the Argylls favoured Balmoral pattern over TOS (when they weren't in Glengarrys) and tended to shape them after the style of a beret.
The Lovat picture has a suggestion of a tourie on top, but I suppose we'd really need to see a back view to determine which. As I said, my first impression was Balmoral, but it could equally be a beret.
The Lovat picture has a suggestion of a tourie on top, but I suppose we'd really need to see a back view to determine which. As I said, my first impression was Balmoral, but it could equally be a beret.
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