The path of self destruction. Why can't some blokes avoid it?

Bugsy's path to self destruction has been well documented on here over the years.
No this is not a Bugsy bashing post but an observation and is relevent to the post subject.
Bugsy's desperate need to be accepted has led him to where he is now and it has happened on more than one website.
EVERY man is desperate to portray/present himself as the absolute epitome of "manliness" and wants to be regarded as the only real choice for every woman.
Replace "woman" with "members of ARRSE" and then ask yourself why Bugsy has continued to post the way he has for over a decade!
 
Having seen a bit of it when somebody's brain breaks, that can be it . Broken never to be right again. Logic and reason can vanish in small subtle ways or horrendous destruction of a person . Horrific.
Exactly, sorry to reference my work again but- take for example Kayleigh-Ann phones in...
I can see on our locals every police interraction she has ever had. I can click on any one of those and see full details. Imagine a windows hard drive file structure. Its a bit like that. I can see she is 21 years old, was child present in a domestic between her mum & dad at 5 years old, got caught stealing at 11 years old, got caught stealing again at 15 and ASDA called police and they found a 16th of hash on her...
From then on...police interraction to her is normality and she goes through a progression of relationships..each one generating multiple 'domestic' incidents and crimes. Kayleigh now has a mahoosive file inder her name. She probably phones police 2-3 times a week.

Is her brain broken? Has she accepted something as normality and failed to see removing herself from certain situations would prevent certain things?
People's brains get 'broken' in many ways. Domestic incidents - majority will involve the victim who is usually female...and she will have mainly been victim in other doms with previous partners.

I can also see she has a few public order offences and violence offences under her belt... Not involving her current partner. Can you see how easy it is to form a wrong opinion??

Its a road laden with eggshells and people can go 'off the rails' for a variety of reasons'..often very valid reasons.
 
Not just blokes, to be fair. Our course bike from my IOTC in the early 90s is, I believe, now onto her 5th marriage. A presentable, fairly attractive, and very well educated girl.

To be fair, you could've seen it as early as Term 1 of IOT; to say that she "attracted male attention" is one very kind way of putting it.
Pictures?





On second thoughts, nah NFI.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Exactly, sorry to reference my work again but- take for example Kayleigh-Ann phones in...
I can see on our locals every police interraction she has ever had. I can click on any one of those and see full details. Imagine a windows hard drive file structure. Its a bit like that. I can see she is 21 years old, was child present in a domestic between her mum & dad at 5 years old, got caught stealing at 11 years old, got caught stealing again at 15 and ASDA called police and they found a 16th of hash on her...
From then on...police interraction to her is normality and she goes through a progression of relationships..each one generating multiple 'domestic' incidents and crimes. Kayleigh now has a mahoosive file inder her name. She probably phones police 2-3 times a week.

Is her brain broken? Has she accepted something as normality and failed to see removing herself from certain situations would prevent certain things?
People's brains get 'broken' in many ways. Domestic incidents - majority will involve the victim who is usually female...and she will have mainly been victim in other doms with previous partners.

I can also see she has a few public order offences and violence offences under her belt... Not involving her current partner. Can you see how easy it is to form a wrong opinion??

Its a road laden with eggshells and people can go 'off the rails' for a variety of reasons'..often very valid reasons.
Wow!! NAIL ONNA DA FÜCKIN' HEAD, AND SOME! Now, what can we do to at least make some attempt to solve the situation without making the victims the aggressors.


MsG
 
Now that's a very interesting response, Lindermyer. At no time did I ever mention any names. In fact, my remarks were directed at all human beings on earth.

Yet you decided to respond to make sure that you weren't included in what I said. Why?

We all have no choice but to respond to what our genes tell (force?) us to do to ensure the survival of the human species. You are no exception. So let's go back to what I stated:



What's notable in your response, Lindermeyer, is that you don't actually deny what I say, just the intensity of it as applied to your (and your partner's) particular case(s). To put it another way: you admit that you're susceptible to the notion, but you're just not that fanatical about it. I believe with that you can stand in rank with the majority of folks (men/women) in that regard. But thanks for supporting my view.

So how do we avoid such situations in the first place? Maybe we could educate our young to recognise their genetic forces and teach them to recognise and engage in meaningful and constructive debate about them in the hope that they (our young) figure how to overcome the clear disadvantages that ignoring the subject had brought to humankind to date. Who knows?

MsG
Crikey.

You really do a mean word salad.

Are you Harry in disguise?




You are mental enough.





There We Are Then
 
Exactly, sorry to reference my work again but- take for example Kayleigh-Ann phones in...
I can see on our locals every police interraction she has ever had. I can click on any one of those and see full details. Imagine a windows hard drive file structure. Its a bit like that. I can see she is 21 years old, was child present in a domestic between her mum & dad at 5 years old, got caught stealing at 11 years old, got caught stealing again at 15 and ASDA called police and they found a 16th of hash on her...
From then on...police interraction to her is normality and she goes through a progression of relationships..each one generating multiple 'domestic' incidents and crimes. Kayleigh now has a mahoosive file inder her name. She probably phones police 2-3 times a week.

Is her brain broken? Has she accepted something as normality and failed to see removing herself from certain situations would prevent certain things?
People's brains get 'broken' in many ways. Domestic incidents - majority will involve the victim who is usually female...and she will have mainly been victim in other doms with previous partners.

I can also see she has a few public order offences and violence offences under her belt... Not involving her current partner. Can you see how easy it is to form a wrong opinion??

Its a road laden with eggshells and people can go 'off the rails' for a variety of reasons'..often very valid reasons.
poor kid.
Needs help as opposed to a record.

Fheck me, I is getting soft. Not even a mention of "trebuchet" .
 
poor kid.
Needs help as opposed to a record.

Fheck me, I is getting soft. Not even a mention of "trebuchet" .
The example I gave is probably representative of 98% of domestics...or indeed 'anything' I deal with.
"Broken homes" really is a thing and - I can with probably 98% accuracy guess the history of a person based on either their name and age or...what report they are making. During the call I will be checking and I'm very rarely wrong in my assumptions.

Edit- At some point a few years ago the govt did away with mental health institutions etc. Mental health became 'normalised'. It is not. It is something I feel needs far more investment in and- even the NHS fails in this. People still call police with their MHI...after the NHS has fobbed them off. Hospitals will then call police to say one of their MH patients has absconded....sorry..initially you have primacy..send out an amb to look for them (unless direct danger to live)

I think @jarrod248 is probably better qualified to comment on this.

He's probably well tucked up in bed with his cocoa and slippers- the old c*nt.
 
Now that's a very interesting response, Lindermyer. At no time did I ever mention any names. In fact, my remarks were directed at all human beings on earth.

Im well aware -

Yet you decided to respond to make sure that you weren't included in what I said. Why?
I responded because I disagreed -
I can only speak with certainty aboçut how i feel - hence speaking of myself and then expressing doubt most others felt that way either

We all have no choice but to respond to what our genes tell (force?) us to do to ensure the survival of the human species. You are no exception. So let's go back to what I stated:

Yes lets

What's notable in your response, Lindermeyer, is that you don't actually deny what I say

Erm yes - yes I did lets review

EVERY man is desperate to portray/present himself as the absolute epitome of "manliness" and wants to be regarded as the only real choice for every woman.

Really

Ive never considered myself or tried to portray myself as the eptimome of manliness - Im well aware I would fall short in many criteria - not least because differrent women have differrent criteria

Seems a pretty firm rebuttal to me
just the intensity of it as applied to your (and your partner's) particular case(s). To put it another way: you admit that you're susceptible to the notion, but you're just not that fanatical about it. I believe with that you can stand in rank with the majority of folks (men/women) in that regard. But thanks for supporting my view.

Nope I was clear ive never felt or viewed myself as such - im well aware im not as demonstrated perhaps by my stating we all perhaps wished we were on occasion.

You will note however i didnt claim that nobody felt they were gods gift to women / men / other - because whilst i disagreed with you that all or even most did - its not indispute that some do.
 
Im well aware -


I responded because I disagreed -
I can only speak with certainty aboçut how i feel - hence speaking of myself and then expressing doubt most others felt that way either



Yes lets



Erm yes - yes I did lets review





Seems a pretty firm rebuttal to me


Nope I was clear ive never felt or viewed myself as such - im well aware im not as demonstrated perhaps by my stating we all perhaps wished we were on occasion.

You will note however i didnt claim that nobody felt they were gods gift to women / men / other - because whilst i disagreed with you that all or even most did - its not indispute that some do.
Don't engage with him — the Toilet Duck is being necked at quite a rate. We've managed to trap him in the poo poo thread so this one can develop well.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
I have been around a fair while, and thinking back on a few people here are my observations, from the point of view as an observer and friend
A couple of fellas I know had multiple marriage break ups, due to spending too much time boozing, and their work, which given they were coppers was bound to affect them
Another two, both brothers, constantly getting married then divorced
Both of them alpha males high achievers, spent all their time at work, and tended to pick trophy wives although I met many of their wives, I don't think they ever really sat down and talked to them honestly, and treated them like employees, having heard the way they spoke to them I was shocked
Another fella went through a massive melt down yet he seemed pretty normal and we are still close friends
But
There was something lurking in the background
He worked hard was good at his job and always thanked me when I helped him out
He had a couple of motorcycle accidents one nearly killing him, the worst one as he was just starting his divorce
Our employer put us all through a medical, turns out he had very highblood pressure, was prone to massive mood swings headaches and balance problems
The doctor asked him about his family, nearly all of the males in his family died young of strokes
He was treated for it, and is a totally relaxed chilled guy and likely to live a long life albeit in a bit of pain from the accidents
None of them were his fault
But
And its a big but
He was a very aggressive rider, so he tended to pushj the envelope where I would hold back
Although these days he is much more relaxed

Another chap I worked with for 15 years had problems with his marriage, until a failed suicide attempt showed up the real problem, family are big social climbers
All sucesful in business, in the media
Just sooo amazing
His wife was a nasty controlling bully, used to knock him about, abuse him and just wore him down
They seemed such a nice couple but I always felt on edge with her and she was very rude to me a few times in front of others, especially at works dos, he would apologise and blame it on her high powered job or the time of the month
I ended up being rude back to her, which is unusual for me
And whilst carrying out a small repair at their house I threatened to
spank her backside if she was rude again
Which didn't go down well
But she got the message
He is doing OK now got a small flat and made friends with a widow, but it's only companionship nothing else
She has re married some high achiever and is still paranoid about people finding out about her past
So much so that even though she moved away from the area, when a work colleague noticed that she used to live in his old home town she clammed up and refused to speak with him saying she was too busy to discuss non important personal matters
His sis is a family friend and knew her well
 
Human Beings are largely driven by their fears. Fear, sadly short circuits the rational parts of the brain, and sends people into safety behaviours. Someone with a consuming fear that their partner is cheating will accuse them to try to reassure themselves. I genuinely believe that anxiety is the source of most self sabotage - including my own.
Mental health can easily be equated with a never-ending war. Anxiety is the common daily currency of that war and generates negative thoughts and can affect the very wealthiest and most beautiful/selfish, to the lowest in society slaving for his/her family and fearful of losing an income and being unable to provide for the family.

There are two workable schools of thought to get out of the negative cycle: 1. Acceptance or 2. Striving for something better... The first is ideal for calming your mind and putting you back on the path and the second is usually tied to resources and is a dangerous path to follow, as failure could tip someone over the edge and should not be taken lightly.

In Summary:-
To my eyes, the stoics had the best solution and its to stick with the theory that the world is chaos and as somebody said, make your bed and be thankful each day for what we do have.
 

Yokel

LE
Humans are creatures of habit. People will act like they always have - even in stressful situations. You could say that behaviour is hard wired in the brain. It is analogous to Newton's First Law of Motion - a body at rest will remain at rest and a body in motion will remain in motion at a constant velocity unless acted upon by an external force.

Change is hard.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
Our employer put us all through a medical, turns out he had very highblood pressure, was prone to massive mood swings headaches and balance problems
The doctor asked him about his family, nearly all of the males in his family died young of strokes
He was treated for it, and is a totally relaxed chilled guy and likely to live a long life albeit in a bit of pain from the accidents
None of them were his fault
My best friend from childhood was happily married with four kids and a really stable home life. Lived in Ethiopia as a foreign worker for many years and was outwardly really happy. Then, just before Christmas last year, announced to his assembled family that he had found happiness four years ago with an Ethiopian girl and they had a 3 year old daughter together - no one had any suspicion or inkling of what he had been up to.

However, 14 years ago, while working in the bush in Zimbabwe, he had suffered a near-catastrophic sub-arachnid bleed on his brain, poor sod only just survived and it was a miracle that his physical recovery was almost back to normal.

I personally think that the permanent brain injury from something like that can permanently alter a character; morality, honesty, empathy - all changed somewhat after that episode.

The post-script is that none of the first marriage children will have anything to do with him, he has cut all ties to his wider family in the UK and is in Ethiopia with new woman and young daughter not getting and care for his paranoia and spiralling mental wellbeing. Its as if the old Ben has died and the new one is an unpleasant narcissist.

Your tale above chimes with that very closely.
 
The blokes I don’t understand are the ones on their 3rd or 4th marriage - I believe the record amongst my peer group is 5 marriages. WTF - mental!
It's known as the triumph of hope over experience - it's the only thing that keeps me still with my French wife, that I'd have to get used to another daft woman.
 
Mental health can easily be equated with a never-ending war. Anxiety is the common daily currency of that war and generates negative thoughts and can affect the very wealthiest and most beautiful/selfish, to the lowest in society slaving for his/her family and fearful of losing an income and being unable to provide for the family.

There are two workable schools of thought to get out of the negative cycle: 1. Acceptance or 2. Striving for something better... The first is ideal for calming your mind and putting you back on the path and the second is usually tied to resources and is a dangerous path to follow, as failure could tip someone over the edge and should not be taken lightly.

In Summary:-
To my eyes, the stoics had the best solution and its to stick with the theory that the world is chaos and as somebody said, make your bed and be thankful each day for what we do have.
... But you are regularly wrong on most subjects.
As you are on this. Dangerously so.

Stoicism/Stiff upper lip works up to a point. Then the coiled spring breaks. There is no "Never ending war." That is the kind of nonsense that drives people to view everything as a conflict that must be fought. When the stress is due to the person overloading themselves, then that is them declaring war on themselves, and making themselves their own self hating enemy.
That view is part of the bloody problem. It is self destructive.
(However, it does allow those in a position of strength to imply that the people they are oppressing just need to accept it and suck it up.)

The OP has flagged up the sudden onset of self destructive impulses. I have also seen this, when very stable, respectable types suddenly break under accumulated stress.

Others have pointed out that there is often a long family history of learned self destructiveness.

Both have their role, but there is a great deal of evidence that the mind is a very fragile thing, and the slightest change in the brain or brain chemistry can cause immense changes in personality or behaviour. Being stoic when there is a neurological or physical trauma issue won't help in the slightest.

If you really want to get all Ancient Greek, adopt the Delphic aphorisms.
"Know thyself."
"Nothing to excess"
"Surety brings ruin".
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
What happens in a different postcode....
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
I've been married twice, my first wife for a whopping 18 months and my second for twenty years this year.

My second wife and I have a good relationship and she acts as my moral compass, keeping me on the straight and narrow when I start spiralling. She's Mexican so is pretty fiery, even at rest and I like to think that I ground her with my English calm. We balance each other, but I'm lucky. My first wife was at utter cnut who I will never forgive for throwing away my Gulf medal and clasp pre-divorce.

I don't know the answer, only that I often indulge in self-sabotage, self-loathing and self-recrimination.
On the plus side, at least I'm not in the RAF.
 

Mölders 1

War Hero
The biggest self-destruct that I have seen in many a year in the military is, without a doubt, the loopy-juice.

Sure, blokes / girls will get themselves into all manner of marital strife, or financial turmoil, or whatever. But you could add all of these together and it wouldn't amount to 10% of the booze-induced trouble that our little cherubs get themselves into.

I wonder if some of us are more prone to becoming an Alcoholic than others?

Nearly all of us like a drink but then there are those who just do not know when to stop and carry on Drinking even after all manor of Drink Related Incidents.

As a result their Careers, Marriages, Mental Health etc suffer the consequences.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
I wonder if some of us are more prone to becoming an Alcoholic than others?

Nearly all of us like a drink but then there are those who just do not know when to stop and carry on Drinking even after all manor of Drink Related Incidents.

As a result their Careers, Marriages, Mental Health etc suffer the consequences.

Drink is an accelerant to so many marriage/relationship/friendship breakups. I've seen it cause so many issues between people that I wonder about the cost/benefit of booze.

A workmate and generally very decent guy killed himself after he and his girlfriend had a row. He was drunk, but not enough to stop him putting a hose from his exhaust pipe through his car window (back when 4-star was a thing).

A friend of mine took to being an alcoholic, to the point where his breakfast was Becks, lunch was whisky and supper was brandy. Needless to say, he lost his driving licence, his job and his wife in that order.

I think it just magnifies any argument, any relationship flaw to cracking point if you let it.
 
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