The ORDER of ST LAZARUS

#1
Medal spotters and geeks.

Can a serving Army Officer wear this medal on his uniform (even mess kit)?

Or would it be classed as walting of the lowest order?

The Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem

To me it would appear that anyone can apply to join and then buy the big shiny medal. I would like to know if it can be worn as I've seen it being done by a serving officer.
 
#2
#3
I thought this was going to be about folk resurrecting old posts.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Wear it and you'll be treated like a leper.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#5
I'm not an expert but I've read the rules and the short answer is no - not without permission from the Sovereign and having read the rules of why HMG might be minded to grant permission I'm pretty sure that this one falls outside the usual rule for that. Mind you he is not the only one:

thacker%2B1.jpg 172954_10150177966247774_736117773_8229283_2723044_o.jpg
The chap on the left is HE The Baron of Fetternear, MBE GCLJ JP who appears to have seen the need to beef up his MBE with bling. Maybe the Queen gave him the OK. The chap on the right is 'Confrère' William Hackett BLJ again I don't know why he feels the need to add bling to what I think are a perfectly respectable RAF LSGC and Fire Service LSGC.

Perhaps I'm being unfair after all they are not in uniform and maybe they are only wearing them at private functions of the order but personally I think it shown disrespect to the Monarch and the Order of the British Empire, to which the good Baron is a Member, to add unauthorised gongs to it. As her is also a JP you would think that following the rules would be incumbent on him.
 
#6
I'm not an expert but I've read the rules and the short answer is no - not without permission from the Sovereign and having read the rules of why HMG might be minded to grant permission I'm pretty sure that this one falls outside the usual rule for that. Mind you he is not the only one:

View attachment 41717 View attachment 41718
The chap on the left is HE The Baron of Fetternear, MBE GCLJ JP who appears to have seen the need to beef up his MBE with bling. Maybe the Queen gave him the OK. The chap on the right is 'Confrère' William Hackett BLJ again I don't know why he feels the need to add bling to what I think are a perfectly respectable RAF LSGC and Fire Service LSGC.

Perhaps I'm being unfair after all they are not in uniform and maybe they are only wearing them at private functions of the order but personally I think it shown disrespect to the Monarch and the Order of the British Empire, to which the good Baron is a Member, to add unauthorised gongs to it. As her is also a JP you would think that following the rules would be incumbent on him.
Hmmmm....I see that 'Confrère' William Hackett is wearing a 'Black & Tan' (Irish War of Independence) medal.

This name jumped out at me from the Order of St. Lazarus homepage - Lt. Col. Robert Gayre of Gayre and Nigg

There is an hilarious portrayal of Gayre in The Charge of the Right Brigade by Robert Innes-Smith.

Anyone notice anything familiar in the following link?

The International Commission on Orders of Chivalry
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
Looking at other pictures of William Hackett I can see that his first medal is not the RAF LSGC but something bearing the Malta Cross. The ribbon on the other one still looks like the Fire Service Medal.
Orleans%2B2010%2B032.jpg investiture+October+2010+038.jpg

I'm spending too much time on this. It's because I really can't stand the Catholic Church and this combination of Waltiness and Catholicism is a red rag.
 
#8
Looking at other pictures of William Hackett I can see that his first medal is not the RAF LSGC but something bearing the Malta Cross. The ribbon on the other one still looks like the Fire Service Medal.
View attachment 41720 View attachment 41721

I'm spending too much time on this. It's because I really can't stand the Catholic Church and this combination of Waltiness and Catholicism is a red rag.
From the introductory page to the Military & Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus as contained in the initial poster's link:

According to the said Constitution the Order is nonpolitical, ecumenical or nondenominational, as its membership is open to all men and women being practicing members of the Christian faith in good standing within their particular denomination. Its international membership consists of Roman-Catholic, Anglican, Protestant, Orthodox, United, Old Catholic, New Apostolic and other Christians,...
I would stress that this is a revived order, which has managed to legally re-establish itself over the years; up until quite recently there were two rival factions, and whilst it could be argued that chronologically there is a connection to and descent from the original Order of St. Lazarus of the Crusades, organisationally it was all over the place for centuries, and it is largely by accident that it managed to survive at all.

It tends to attract the sort of people for whom 'membership of the golf club' is not enough, if you know what I mean. The propensity for having photographs taken in all sort of quasi-historical get-up whilst trying to maintain a pratrician demeanour points to this order not being of the first rank; I can state with some confidence that the SMOM does not take this lot seriously. The fact that it is not wholly Catholic - which the extant historical orders have always been - is another giveaway, and indicates that this order has sought to broaden its appeal under the somewhat ill-defined 'Christian chivalry' banner - fellow ARRSErs may remember that the so-called MacCarthy Mor did this with his 'Order of the Niadh Nask'.

I reiterate my advice to avoid this organisation - even if one allows that they are a harmless lot with the best of intentions, it is not of the first rank and is clearly a magnet for social climbers. Best avoided.
 
#9
Where do I sign up?
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
#12
I would stress that this is a revived order, which has managed to legally re-establish itself over the years; up until quite recently there were two rival factions, and whilst it could be argued that chronologically there is a connection to and descent from the original Order of St. Lazarus of the Crusades, organisationally it was all over the place for centuries, and it is largely by accident that it managed to survive at all.
Excuse me, are you St Lazarus’s Order?

Feck off, we’re the Order of St Lazarus.
 
#13
Excuse me, are you St Lazarus’s Order?

Feck off, we’re the Order of St Lazarus.
What about the Peoples Popular Order of St Lazarus or the Popular Peoples Order of St Lazarus? We dont talk to them, splitters!!

STILTS
 
#14
#15
Hackett is wearing what appears to be a St John's lifesaving medal with his Fire Brigade LSM. He also appears to be totally barking. One minute a fully paid-up son of Eireann, and the next all togged up in porridge wog get up... with uilleann plumbing. Just what IS IT with with this lot? Parallel universe syndrome?

Oh... and that 'serving officer' wants gripping for cnutishness.
 
#16
Hackett is wearing what appears to be a St John's lifesaving medal with his Fire Brigade LSM. He also appears to be totally barking. One minute a fully paid-up son of Eireann, and the next all togged up in porridge wog get up... with uilleann plumbing. Just what IS IT with with this lot? Parallel universe syndrome?

Oh... and that 'serving officer' wants gripping for cnutishness.
Well now, there's the question....

I am of the opinion that these sort of people are drawn towards such organisations, and to this sort of behaviour, because they suffer from a particular form of social insecurity overlaid with delusions of grandeur - in short, they have never been able to reconcile themselves to the fact that they were not born into the ranks of the aristocracy and consequently display all the classic signs of middle class inadequacy.

Joining such organisations as the Lazarene lot makes these types feel important and allows them to dress up like refugees from a regional production of HMS Pinafore. They are not so much social climbing as metaphorically running on a hamster's wheel because such organisations are largely composed of similar-minded people. They assume attitudes, strike poses and try to behave like aristocrats, which only serves to highlight that they are invariably mediocre people of obscure backgrounds or none. Extreme examples of the type are Jimbo Shortt.
 
#17
Well now, there's the question....

..... Extreme examples of the type are Jimbo Shortt.
By heck, GG! Took a lonnnnngggg time for that cnut's name to get mentioned!

Meanwhile, ISTR that the "International Commission on Orders of Chivalry (1996)" you linked to is the old-style self-licking lollipop. During the Shortt studies there was mention that it had been reformed [and re-formed] - . And, no, please don't ask me to search my hard drive for the rest of the week trying to find the link! :-D It was in one of Guy Stair Sainty's learned [and honest] appraisals.
 
#18
By heck, GG! Took a lonnnnngggg time for that cnut's name to get mentioned!

Meanwhile, ISTR that the "International Commission on Orders of Chivalry (1996)" you linked to is the old-style self-licking lollipop. During the Shortt studies there was mention that it had been reformed [and re-formed] - . And, no, please don't ask me to search my hard drive for the rest of the week trying to find the link! :-D It was in one of Guy Stair Sainty's learned [and honest] appraisals.
Indeed blue, in relation to Jimbo and this sort of codology it's very much a case of 'Six Degrees of Separation'.

You're correct about the reform of the International Commission on Orders of Chivalry - my understanding is that there was a mass culling of assorted walts and fantasists some years ago, possibly in response to the MacCarthy Mor scandal.
 
#19
That chap with the MBE is Martin Edwin Thacker and his MBE is genuine (NYH99). Good job it is too.
 
#20
Hackett is wearing what appears to be a St John's lifesaving medal with his Fire Brigade LSM. He also appears to be totally barking. One minute a fully paid-up son of Eireann, and the next all togged up in porridge wog get up... with uilleann plumbing. Just what IS IT with with this lot? Parallel universe syndrome?

Oh... and that 'serving officer' wants gripping for cnutishness.
Hello folks,I came across your website after someone told me that you where having a bit of a debate about me…so here I am William Hackett..
I have to say that I have found ,without exception,your posts to be enjoyable and fair and sometimes really amusing.I really do take exception though to being called "totally barking"…it should be "completely and absolutely totally barking.."

For the sake of clarification my medals are the Life Saving Medal from the order of St John for a rescue I did whilst in service with London Fire Brigade.
The fire service LSGCM given after 20years service.
The order of St Lazarus, brother, given on acceptance into the order...
and the medal of merit OSLJ.for charitable activities.

The Irish War of Independence Medal is worn on my right breast once a year on St Patricks day to honour my Uncle ,Brigadier George Adamson, Irish Free State Army,who was killed in the Irish Civil War,and was awarded the medal posthumously in 1947. Athlone Castle was renamed Adamson Castle in his memory, by the Irish Army and Government in a ceremony there in the 1960's.
My mothers family, the Adamsons, were originally from Invernesshire hence the Scottish connection to the "porridge wog" reference above.

Each of my medals were individually earned in one way or another.

If I were a serving or retired member of the British Armed Forces, then I would expect to ask for, and if permission where to be granted by HM, to wear the OSLJ medals which are from the French Obedience of the Order.....
However.....
I am an Irish Citizen, and my past President, Mary Robinson ,was made a Dame Commander of the order of merit OSLJ, in Dublin last October.The same month that I was admitted to the order.I see no conflict in interest, if my past Head of State and myself, we both equal in law and both Irish Citizens, are members of merit of the order of St Lazarus of Jerusalem.

As for the likes or dislikes of individuals regarding the order then that is appropriately a matter for the individual.We are engaged on a lot of charitable projects.
It is simply not true that anyone can join by paying for a medal .
There is criteria to be met , a vetting process to be taken and a lifelong individual commitment and oath to undertake in charitable work.This is taken very seriously indeed by the brothers and sisters of the Order.

I really don’t want to bore you with anything else, other than, my gallantry medal was awarded to me after I was medically discharged from the London Fire Brigade, with almost 23 years service, diagnosed clinically with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, caused by the rescue I did ...
(which I am sure more than a few of you understand only too well).
I still suffer from it today ,and I am now 20 years retired.

My charity work and the order of St Lazarus helps me take my mind off of it....
(Even though I am still completely and absolutely totally barking..….)

I hope this rather long post has not offended anyone as no offence is intended.You will think whatever you like of me and that is entirely and rightly your own business, I need to remind myself, its none of mine.

Anyways that’s all really.Keep up the good work and I wish you all well and safe.
Tis a pity we didn’t have anything like this forum when I was in the fire service, it would certainly have helped morale a lot…
Arra Best
Barkingly Yours...
William
 

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