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The new Land Rover Defender is go!

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
It's not (unless you edit history to conflate the Willys Jeep with the PoS Wrangler). Neither has Jeep been 'setting the standard' for a very long time - unless it's the standard for 'American-not-quite-but-almost-capable-of-being-driven-in-not-a-straight-line-off-tarmac'
I had a test drive in a Renegade. It truly is a horrible thing; cramped, uncomfortable and tacky. I’ve yet to see one on the road. Can’t see why anyone would buy one when a Ranger Raptor is the same price here.
 
I had a test drive in a Renegade. It truly is a horrible thing; cramped, uncomfortable and tacky. I’ve yet to see one on the road. Can’t see why anyone would buy one when a Ranger Raptor is the same price here.
I try . . . and, you @bobthebuilder are paid . . . to view these things objectively.

But it is suggested that the "mystique" surrounding JEEP, and in particular the "iconic" Wrangler, is similar to the "cult" surrounding Haley-Davidson motorcycles.

Objectively, there are better vehicles, and better motorbikes, than both/either of them.

But, the "afficionados" of both "brands" (I hate the use of that word, with regard to the automotive industry !!), are seduced by, buy-into, the "life style" ;) .
 
I try . . . and, you @bobthebuilder are paid . . . to view these things objectively.

But it is suggested that the "mystique" surrounding JEEP, and in particular the "iconic" Wrangler, is similar to the "cult" surrounding Haley-Davidson motorcycles.

Objectively, there are better vehicles, and better motorbikes, than both/either of them.

But, the "afficionados" of both "brands" (I hate the use of that word, with regard to the automotive industry !!), are seduced by, buy-into, the "life style" ;) .
At least Harley’s aren’t FIATs in drag
 
For completeness, also posted on the INEOS thread

[DRIFT]

AS MITSUBISHI HAVE JUST ANNOUNCED THEY WILL WITHDRAW FROM THE UK/EU/EUROPEAN MARKET, WHY IS WHATCAR? BOTHERING?! . . . TO HELP MITSUBISHI SELL THE REMAINING STOCK MAYBE?

Published by: WHATCAR? magazine, on 05 September 2020.

Mitsubishi L200 long-term test review.

The L200 has a reputation for being a great working vehicle, but can it also be a good alternative to a large SUV for those seeking practicality and off-road prowess?


We're living with one to find out:
+ The car Mitsubishi L200 Barbarian X Double Cab Run by Max Edleston, junior photographer.
+ Why it’s here To see if a pick-up truck can be as comfortable and practical for daily life as a large SUV.
+ Needs to Offer all the space that a What Car? photographer might need, be great for long-distance trips and off-road driving, and function as a mobile office.

Mileage 489
List price £32,525
Price as tested £41,317
Test economy 32.4mpg
Official economy 36.2mpg
Options: Adventurer III commercial hardtop (£1446)
Electric Blue metallic paint (£455)
tailgate locking kit (£310) bed liner (£210)
bed mat (£134)

3 September 2020 – First impressions

When driving on the roads of Cheshire, near my family home, the chances are you’ll see one of three types of car: an SUV with enough chrome to blind an oncoming driver, a high-end sports car blasting its way round a corner, or a mile-munching saloon with a German badge on its bonnet.

A less common sight is a pick-up truck. But among Cheshire’s large farming community, the Mitsubishi L200 is one of the most sought-after models.

It’s a car that has always been present on the fringes of my life, too, because I’ve long had a keen interest in pick-up trucks and my uncle (a farmer) had a bright blue L200 when I was growing up. It amazed me back then to think how large it was inside, and how easily it could fit myself, my brother, my cousin and all of the supplies needed to run a busy farm without batting an eyelid.

Now, as you may have heard before from What Car? photographers, ours is a job where no two days are the same. One morning we could be in a dusty quarry, and the next standing up to our knees in water, all to get the pictures you see in the magazine and on the website. The point is, I need a car that can handle any terrain and that's large enough to swallow all of my gear. What’s sitting on my driveway now, then, is a new L200.

More specifically, it’s an L200 in Barbarian X trim and with an automatic gearbox. And under the bonnet is a 148bhp 2.3-litre diesel engine, which should have more than enough grunt to haul this pick-up around, even when it’s fully laden with my gear. While Barbarian X trim comes with plenty of goodies, not least a heated steering wheel and a 360deg parking camera, I have nonetheless added a few options.

The most obvious one is the £1446 hard-top cover for the load bay, which means I can keep my camera kit secure and away from prying eyes when it’s not being used. It’s early days, but the reversing camera has already proved itself to be far more than just a luxury, because parking the L200 at my local supermarket can be a challenge to say the least. Unlike the best large SUVs, pick-up trucks don’t do anything to hide their size.

The leather-trimmed seats have shown themselves to be comfortable even on long journeys, too, so I can arrive at shoot locations feeling fresh and ready to work, rather than needing 20 minutes to sort out my back and legs before getting started. Another boon is the L200’s infotainment system, which, like many modern setups, comes with Apple CarPlay smartphone mirroring.

It grants access to handy apps like Waze, allowing me to get from A to B with the minimum of fuss thanks to real-time traffic updates. True, the system has frozen up on me a couple of times recently – seemingly always when I’m in a busy town and relying on the maps to direct me. However, this might be down to the cable I'm using, so I’ll change that before blaming the truck.

During my time with the L200, I want to push it both on and off road to see how it handles different conditions and explore the different drive modes it offers. By that, I mean the various off-roading aids, including low-ratio gears and locking differentials, all designed to get me where I need to be. No matter what, I expect to get it muddy. Above all, though, I want to know whether the L200 can be just as comfortable and refined as a large SUV, while also offering that extra dose of practicality that comes with a pick-up truck, and all without breaking the bank in the process.

l200lt.jpg



[/DRIFT]
 
For completeness, also posted on the INEOS thread

[DRIFT]

AS MITSUBISHI HAVE JUST ANNOUNCED THEY WILL WITHDRAW FROM THE UK/EU/EUROPEAN MARKET, WHY IS WHATCAR? BOTHERING?! . . . TO HELP MITSUBISHI SELL THE REMAINING STOCK MAYBE?

Published by: WHATCAR? magazine, on 05 September 2020.

Mitsubishi L200 long-term test review.

The L200 has a reputation for being a great working vehicle, but can it also be a good alternative to a large SUV for those seeking practicality and off-road prowess?


We're living with one to find out:
+ The car Mitsubishi L200 Barbarian X Double Cab Run by Max Edleston, junior photographer.
+ Why it’s here To see if a pick-up truck can be as comfortable and practical for daily life as a large SUV.
+ Needs to Offer all the space that a What Car? photographer might need, be great for long-distance trips and off-road driving, and function as a mobile office.

Mileage 489
List price £32,525
Price as tested £41,317
Test economy 32.4mpg
Official economy 36.2mpg
Options: Adventurer III commercial hardtop (£1446)
Electric Blue metallic paint (£455)
tailgate locking kit (£310) bed liner (£210)
bed mat (£134)

3 September 2020 – First impressions

When driving on the roads of Cheshire, near my family home, the chances are you’ll see one of three types of car: an SUV with enough chrome to blind an oncoming driver, a high-end sports car blasting its way round a corner, or a mile-munching saloon with a German badge on its bonnet.

A less common sight is a pick-up truck. But among Cheshire’s large farming community, the Mitsubishi L200 is one of the most sought-after models.

It’s a car that has always been present on the fringes of my life, too, because I’ve long had a keen interest in pick-up trucks and my uncle (a farmer) had a bright blue L200 when I was growing up. It amazed me back then to think how large it was inside, and how easily it could fit myself, my brother, my cousin and all of the supplies needed to run a busy farm without batting an eyelid.

Now, as you may have heard before from What Car? photographers, ours is a job where no two days are the same. One morning we could be in a dusty quarry, and the next standing up to our knees in water, all to get the pictures you see in the magazine and on the website. The point is, I need a car that can handle any terrain and that's large enough to swallow all of my gear. What’s sitting on my driveway now, then, is a new L200.

More specifically, it’s an L200 in Barbarian X trim and with an automatic gearbox. And under the bonnet is a 148bhp 2.3-litre diesel engine, which should have more than enough grunt to haul this pick-up around, even when it’s fully laden with my gear. While Barbarian X trim comes with plenty of goodies, not least a heated steering wheel and a 360deg parking camera, I have nonetheless added a few options.

The most obvious one is the £1446 hard-top cover for the load bay, which means I can keep my camera kit secure and away from prying eyes when it’s not being used. It’s early days, but the reversing camera has already proved itself to be far more than just a luxury, because parking the L200 at my local supermarket can be a challenge to say the least. Unlike the best large SUVs, pick-up trucks don’t do anything to hide their size.

The leather-trimmed seats have shown themselves to be comfortable even on long journeys, too, so I can arrive at shoot locations feeling fresh and ready to work, rather than needing 20 minutes to sort out my back and legs before getting started. Another boon is the L200’s infotainment system, which, like many modern setups, comes with Apple CarPlay smartphone mirroring.

It grants access to handy apps like Waze, allowing me to get from A to B with the minimum of fuss thanks to real-time traffic updates. True, the system has frozen up on me a couple of times recently – seemingly always when I’m in a busy town and relying on the maps to direct me. However, this might be down to the cable I'm using, so I’ll change that before blaming the truck.

During my time with the L200, I want to push it both on and off road to see how it handles different conditions and explore the different drive modes it offers. By that, I mean the various off-roading aids, including low-ratio gears and locking differentials, all designed to get me where I need to be. No matter what, I expect to get it muddy. Above all, though, I want to know whether the L200 can be just as comfortable and refined as a large SUV, while also offering that extra dose of practicality that comes with a pick-up truck, and all without breaking the bank in the process.

View attachment 502637


[/DRIFT]

We looked at 4 different pickup twin cabs for Cambodia a few years ago. The L200, the Ford, the Nissan and the Toyota Hilux.

We went with the Hilux because it had better resale value there.

The L200 sounded like it was powered by a square wave generator running on chip shop fat. Dreadful.

The only thing worse was the Sanyyong.
 
We looked at 4 different pickup twin cabs for Cambodia a few years ago. The L200, the Ford, the Nissan and the Toyota Hilux.

We went with the Hilux because it had better resale value there.

The L200 sounded like it was powered by a square wave generator running on chip shop fat. Dreadful.

The only thing worse was the Sanyyong.
You’ve obviously never driven an LDV!
 
Not (yet) included on the AUTOCAR magazine’s on-line version (to COPY and PASTE), so I have typed-in the following . . . because you’re worth it !!

Also posted on the INEOS thread.


Published by: AUTOCAR magazine (page 15), issue dated 16 September 2020.

Jimny back as a van . . .

THE SUZUKI JIMNY has returned to the UK market – but only as a commercial vehicle. The small 4x4 was removed from sale as a passenger car due to the adverse effect it had on the brand’s fleet average CO2 emissions, but by homologating it as a van it is subject to a less stringent EU target CO2 figure.

Mechanically, it’s unchanged, but the rear two seats have been removed for a flat, 863-litre load bay with a central partition to stop cargo (and dogs !! ), moving into the front. The Jimny also retains the same safety systems as before. Prices have yet to be revealed, but previously the model started at £15,370.

1600343144847.png
 
Also posted on the INEOS thread . . .

Seemingly ONLY speculation, but it would confirm what has already been said on these threads.


+ + + + + + + + + + + +

Published by: Jacob Oliva, motor1.com, on 08 October 2020.

The iconic nameplate is allegedly entering its final model year.

Toyota patrons and SUV fans, drop what you're doing because we've got news for you. Reportedly, the Japanese automaker is killing off the Land Cruiser soon in the U.S. This old SUV will apparently join countless other models that aren't making it past the new couple of model year.

However, take this with a healthy dash of salt or put the whole canister even, as nothing has been confirmed at this point.

The news came from Motor Authority, which cited a now-deleted post on IH8MUD.com – a website and forum for everything Land Cruiser. According to the post, Toyota will discontinue the Land Cruiser nameplate after the 2021 model year, while the Lexus LX will live on but with a turbo V6 instead of the current 5.7-liter V8.

Motor Authority also cited a dealer source confirming the rumor, who said that "there's no illusion it's coming back and it's completely dead for the moment." The source wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

The same source also told the publication that for the 2021 model year, the Land Cruiser Heritage Edition will return with a third row. This special LC was introduced at the Chicago Auto Show in 2019 for the 2020 model year, with a price tag that hovers around the $80,000 mark.

While the rumor is completely unconfirmed by the automaker at the time of this writing, it isn't quite unfounded based on the Land Cruiser's age. Of note, the current J200 generation has been around since 2007, with no concrete reports of a successor. It made do with only numerous facelifts to keep the styling fresh and attractive for the SUV-hungry market.

We'll know more if this report holds true in the months or years to come but for what it's worth, we sure do hope we got this one wrong for the iconic nameplate's sake.

Source: Motor Authority.

1602680592267.png


 

RTU'd

Old-Salt
Can't see to many farmers putting bails of hay/straw and animals in a new Defender.
One reason why old Defenders go for a premium now, silly money up to £50k.

Yes you get all the goodies & tech kit but priced a 110 up the other day.
Once all added nearly £67k and no way dead sheep & straw is going in it.
Hill Farmers looking now at the Dacia Duster cheap to run & 4X4 for under £20k.

And i'm a Land rover fan but by Discovery will fall apart before I give it up, that might be tomorrow.
 
Positive German review of the new Defender 90: Geländewagen: Kurz durch den Schlamm – eine Ausfahrt im Land Rover Defender 90

Note that they drove one with the extra-cost option air suspension on the road but switched to one with stock suspension to go off-road.

Published by: Steve Cropley, Autocar magazine, on 28 October 2020.

Land Rover Defender 90 P400 X 2020 UK review. From £40,3309.

Does a more compact three-door bodystyle make for a better Defender than a longer five-door? We find out with a first drive on UK roads.


What is it . . . . ?
When Land Rover launched the new Defender, it was easy enough to understand why the company majored first on the longer-wheelbase 110 versions, but it was still a disappointment given that, as its own designers have often pointed out, the shorter 90 carries the iconic shape.
Now the 90 has landed at last, held up for a while by Covid and still subject to about a three-month delivery delay, it’s possible to see how different – and similar – it really is to the longer model, about which we’ve already written extensively. It’s quite clearly a modular car: the monocoque chassis, suspension, steering and powertrain packages are all closely related.
The interest lies in the effect carving 20in out of the wheelbase has on stuff like kerb weight, handling and ride, and accommodation – and we took the opportunity to try the new model in P400 mild-hybrid guise, given it’s the highest-performing Defender 90 of all.
The weights are surprisingly close. A shorter model weighs only 65kg less than a similar-spec 110, although that advantage nearly doubles (to 120kg) if your 110 is equipped with third-row seating. Rear accommodation is near-as-dammit identical for space and comfort to a 110’s second row, but the 90’s obvious disadvantage, as a three-door, is that it’s much harder for rear passengers to access and – at least in our privacy-glazed test car – it seemed pretty dark back there. The wide-opening rear door is a boon, though, just as it is on the 110, and carrying capacity is massively larger than the old model’s.
The P400 3.0-litre straight-six petrol twin-turbo engine fitted to our test car makes it the most powerful and fastest-accelerating production Defender available. It turns in a 0-62mph time of 6.0sec, with an accompanying top speed of 120mph. Understandably, perhaps, WLTP combined fuel consumption is unimpressive, at 25mpg, and neither does the Defender 90’s CO2 output – 256g/km – pull up any trees.
What's it like . . . . ?
Like a fast-growing number of Jaguar Land Rover engines, the P400 uses an integrated starter-generator (ISG) to harvest braking energy and deploy it on acceleration, but it fails to turn this model into an economy machine.
Still, the 3.0-litre straight-six engine – the latest in what is now a modular family of three made in JLR’s Ingenium engine plant near Wolverhampton – is the embodiment of smoothness and quietness, and produces copious amounts of torque from low down in the rev range, even though it will also rev smoothly to 6500rpm. Not that it’s likely to spend much time turning so hard: the generous torque peak is produced from 2000rpm and, with eight ratios available in the automatic gearbox, it never needs to rev hard.
When you drive, three effects are soon obvious. One is agility: the shorter car naturally turns tighter and with more alacrity. Second, as a result of its shorter wheelbase – and possibly the extra weight of a six-cylinder engine in the nose – there is a little more nosedive under braking and squat under acceleration than you’d notice at similar velocities in a 110. It’s no big deal, a curiosity rather than a fault.
And besides, you wouldn’t want anyone stiffening the natural rates of the 90 X’s height-adjustable air springs because that might negate one of this machine’s major strengths on and off road: its excellent ride quality. Not only does it largely obliterate ruts, but it also does the job almost as quietly as a luxury saloon would do. That refinement adds enormously to the appeal of the Defender 90, especially since the chassis rigidity and solidity are obvious and reassuring.
We weren’t able to do any serious off-road driving in the P400 X but we did tackle some rugged stuff at Eastnor Castle in a much lower-spec four-cylinder 90 D300 – which lacked this test car’s height-adjustable springs – and it became perfectly clear that this lower-spec 90 could handle obstacles that would have humbled its predecessor.
Should I buy one . . . . ?
It’s rather likely that in most owners’ hands, the P400 X – what with its elaborate and rather luxurious equipment, its impressive on-road high-performance capability and its rather eye-watering £77,400 price – won’t be required to do very much serious off-roading.
However, our experience with the lesser D300, pricey enough for many at around £45,000, suggests that the P400 could most certainly cope if required. Probably better. As it is, it’s extremely appealing on-road transport, too. Which is to say that the breadth of capability that was built into Land Rovers from the very first has not just been maintained: it has been greatly extended.

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RTU'd

Old-Salt
Dead lambs will do damage to the upholstery?
Can you still hose the back out?
1603900378004.png

Its a car for mummy to drive rollo, edwin & poppy to the private school in.
Not for putting wire, posts and that decent manure/poo mole valley sell in tubs.
 
Dead lambs will do damage to the upholstery?
Can you still hose the back out?
View attachment 515867
Its a car for mummy to drive rollo, edwin & poppy to the private school in.
Not for putting wire, posts and that decent manure/poo mole valley sell in tubs.
The UK market for farm utility vehicles is about 5000 units a year according to the AEA. Presumably that includes everything from bargain basement to a few luxury SUVs via all the twin cabs to luxury SUVs. The annual UK utility vehicle market for sheep farmers is probably less than 2000 units. Landrover have never exported big numbers of vehicles to farmers outside the UK; bear in mind that old Defender production sat in the 20-30,000 units a year range all the vehicles life.


Meanwhile, the global market for a modern, safe, robust working SUV is vast. Toyota sell 40,000 Landcruisers a year in Australia alone. Some of their big corporate clients are looking elsewhere because of primary safety and environmental issues that Toyota isn’t addressing.

Which would you do if you were Landrover? Invest in a vehicle aimed at a static market of a couple of thousand sales a year or one that has growing market of several hundred thousand units a year.

And that’s before we consider that your photo is of a high spec Defender with a third row of seats. How many farmers bought an old 110 Safari to carry sheep?
 
Also posted on the INEOS thread . . .

Seemingly ONLY speculation, but it would confirm what has already been said on these threads.


+ + + + + + + + + + + +

Published by: Jacob Oliva, motor1.com, on 08 October 2020.

The iconic nameplate is allegedly entering its final model year.

Toyota patrons and SUV fans, drop what you're doing because we've got news for you. Reportedly, the Japanese automaker is killing off the Land Cruiser soon in the U.S. This old SUV will apparently join countless other models that aren't making it past the new couple of model year.

However, take this with a healthy dash of salt or put the whole canister even, as nothing has been confirmed at this point.

The news came from Motor Authority, which cited a now-deleted post on IH8MUD.com – a website and forum for everything Land Cruiser. According to the post, Toyota will discontinue the Land Cruiser nameplate after the 2021 model year, while the Lexus LX will live on but with a turbo V6 instead of the current 5.7-liter V8.

Motor Authority also cited a dealer source confirming the rumor, who said that "there's no illusion it's coming back and it's completely dead for the moment." The source wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

The same source also told the publication that for the 2021 model year, the Land Cruiser Heritage Edition will return with a third row. This special LC was introduced at the Chicago Auto Show in 2019 for the 2020 model year, with a price tag that hovers around the $80,000 mark.

While the rumor is completely unconfirmed by the automaker at the time of this writing, it isn't quite unfounded based on the Land Cruiser's age. Of note, the current J200 generation has been around since 2007, with no concrete reports of a successor. It made do with only numerous facelifts to keep the styling fresh and attractive for the SUV-hungry market.

We'll know more if this report holds true in the months or years to come but for what it's worth, we sure do hope we got this one wrong for the iconic nameplate's sake.

Source: Motor Authority.

View attachment 512085

I rated our Land Cruisers highly when they were part of our fleet.
5602786250_0f75363c23_n.jpg
 
I rated our Land Cruisers highly when they were part of our fleet.
View attachment 516226
Great cars but the basic engineering is now 25 years old (and more). It’s rapidly being overtaken by a mix of safety and environmental legislation, corporate social responsibility and greenie politics. Toyota have no real idea how to replace it. Mitsubishi are in the same boat with the Shogun / Pajero in the corner of your picture. Meanwhile Landrover have taken the quantum leap.

That’s a Landcruiser Prado anywhere else but the UK BTW. Very much the baby of the Landcruiser range.
 
The shogun has been a large part of our fleet since we were created. Once Mitsi pull out of the UK, the company is looking at replacing them with Volvo hybrids.
 
Morning All,
Searched for 'Willys Jeep' and this thread came up.
I know it's not a 'Defender' but I thought some on here might like this.
Screenshot_20201101-122735_Photos.jpg

Think I posted these on another thread.
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