Discussion in 'AGC, RAPTC and SASC' started by agoodgrouping, Jan 11, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. As an Infanteer I appear to know more about this than others judging from posts on ARRSE. I have copied this because I assume there is a coms problem ?

    Gasp !

    ..let me enlighten you because you are about to receive a purple book containing info that you think is not on the on the horizon but you appear not to know about it - spooky.

    Read the DINs. Hopefully your SPS types are letting you know that there is a brute called JSP 752 arriving and for most things you are concerned about (travel, NRSA etc etc) the world changes on the arrival of JPA in the RAF in late March...the new Regs affect all Services at the same time for about 60 of the most important allowances - why don't you know about this ?

    Major changes are here, LSSA is replaced by LSA, read the JSP or speak to your RAO and learn about it.

  2. And as an even better idea AGG nobody has planned any training for your unit clerks in these new rules. So your RAO will have to wait for the real JSP to turn up (it is still in draft); then read learn and inwardly digest it (ie RTFM), then train his clerks, then train the lumpen masses (by April?) and then operate a set of rules designed to work under JPA, manually!

    And of course continue the day job, finish off the OTT and prepare for DII/JPA/FORGE. Just a normal day's work then .........
  3. And it's likely to be worse for the TA, as apparently Worthy Down are binning all TA courses in preparation of JPA, which will do wonders for the people being persuaded to be clerks rather than infanteers etc.
  4. and the TA masterstroke ....

    close the JPAC(the enquiry/help desk) at the weekends.
  5. Ah, but that's similar to the problems TA units experience with FORGE, it's predecessor TAMIS, as well as UNICOM. (Won't even mention UNICOM Out Of Barracks.)

    No one at a TA unit outside of the RAO or the Civil Service Systems Administrator (both at RHQ) know who to talk to, and couldn't do anything at the weekend anyway, so if you have a problem, you're stuffed. On more than one weekend, I've been tapping away quite merrily, the system crashed on me and that's that.

    When you consider that FORGE won't talk directly to Glasgow, and that you have to download the FORGE information into UNICOM, make sure nothing got lost in the download (and it does), and then transmit to Glasgow, it makes you wonder what joined up thinking is going on, and that's for something as relatively simple as FORGE, which at the end of the day, is simply a mechanism for recording Attendance Registers. I reminded my PSAO a little while ago about how much simpler the system was when it was manual PAM50s printed out of PAMPAS, where you manually wrote in the pay allowance, and put it in the post to the relevant APC. Don't think the guys were paid any later than they currently are.

    Sometimes, computers are held up to be more efficient, simply because they're computers. I suspect someone grownup said "Manning crisis with the AGC? Tell you what, we're all PC literate these days, get the guys to do their own admin". Hmm, interesting. Haven't noticed my civilian employer taking that route.

    This is my concern with JPA - we're potentially trying to be too clever. If the rules were simpler for making claims, the administration of them would be less complex as well. JPA implies the SPS staff can be fewer - but what happens on Ops? Does the Brigade/Division get a larger SPS team because the blokes on the ground won't have access to JPA? What happens to skill fade because the SPS team in your Battalion using JPA, get posted to a Battalion on Ops with no JPA and have to go back to a paper and pen system?

    Or will there now be a Royal Signals tech attached to sort out the JPA specific issues?
  6. Paymaster,

    it isn't in draft, 752 is here. It has been issued on the MOD WEb, these information booklets are arriving en masse in our unit in deepest Wiltshire - haven't you got yours yet ?

    The RAOs will have to read it and teach their staff on the new Regs - I can't see a prob - can u ?
  7. whoops,

    a key point I forgot - check out the JPAC PACC telephone number.....I think Glasgow 3600 is pretty unforgettable for anyone who has tried to get through
  8. AGG, Yes but you will see that the copy on the web is, still missing Chapters and many paragraphs come in blue for some reason.

    Leaflets starting to arrive, we look after 60+ UINs in 40+ locations, so it wasn't done by Paying UIN for some reason.

    Yes one can read it and discuss it with the staff, but somehow the lumpen masses must also understand the new rules and what is expected from them, I can't just parade the 800 of them in a gym somewhere, they are all over the shop.

    There are issues too about how to work the interim system ?1Apr-27 Nov, does a 1771 have to be authorised (probably no) should the claimant have to sign it twice, do they really mean to drop the receipt needed level to £5+, what evidence of a 3 min phone call home does one need (the individuals Mobile Bill?). The guidance on the expected levels of NS & DS are yet to be published (Civil Servants can reasonabley claim a 1/2 btl of wine with dinner can squaddies have a couple of pints with theirs?) Plus lots of other questions. I had hoped that the SPS CoC would have Div pow-wows to sort it all out but apparently it is just RTFM.

    So I think the bottom line is there is still a lot of detail to sort out but very little time to cascade it down to all who need to know.
  9. Pmr,

    I am no sure anyone can blame the SPS CoC ...there will have been lots of tri-Service probs for SP Pol to resolve and I am certain this will have delayed things.

    Also, not sure that anyone can to get TOO agitated about it yet as EVERYONE is somewhat uncertain of what to do - you can hardly get criticised for not doing something properly if your CoC themselves haven't worked it out & told you what to do. I feel sure that leeway will be given in the initial stages - it must be.

    From what I have seen, unless you have full DII there will be very few labourious tasks lost to produce the manpower savings expected with JPA. The 2ICs clerk and QMs clerks were always expendable - why do I need 2 Coy clerks (one of whom is always playing Corps sport ?). Our ROA tells me his Pay Sgt post goes in addition to his Docs Sgt..this seems crazy - she is one person we MUST retain as she appears t be one of the few people my soldiers trust knows about the thing most important to them - money.

    I will watch JPA develop with interest - good luck.
  10. I don't blame anybody, but the big hand small map style doesn't suit our business. We need the nity grity detail in order that we are all singing from the same song sheet. There are now only two months before we have to operate a completely new set of rules and someone has to educate c100,000 army personnel on what they are.
  11. Sorry mate but I am confused by you AGC types. Why wait for your CoC to tell you ? The info has been issued through DINs and if I have it in my unit, at OC level, then it MUST be in your HQ. It is probably sat in some girly SO2 SPSs email inbox while she is skiing (she is probably then going sailing so do not hold your breath!).

    Log onto the Defence Intranet, pull up JSP 752 (which IS complete), read it and tell your team what they need to change and do. Even I can read this document on line.

    You do not need to attend a course to do this, waiting for your CoC to tell you will be too late I fear.
  12. About a year ago, my unit was roundly criticised in public by HQ for not knowing about a policy document that had been published on the Intranet. My boss, who is a bit of a whizz with the barbed comment, fired back. Silence from HQ and a little better relationship between them and us. Until the next change of staff!

    But, sadly, it is not unusual to find that Staff Officers and Civil Servants in their lofty eyries have forgotten that the vast majority of the Army is not connected to DII and does not have time to wade through reams of badly laid out documents on the Intranet! I am in the middle of JSP336 at the moment - not a pleasant experience!

    And I won't mention the search mechanism on the Defence Intranet or I will have to go and lie down in a dark room!

  13. I totally agree. That search engine is absolutely shiite.
  14. AGG I'm afraid you don't understand the situation clearly enough. The rules in the JSP are designed for a JPA user but we have to use them in a non JPA period therefore there are many clarifications needed. An example would be the simple 1771, making a claim with JPA you wouldn't need it or a Responsible officer, before that time you will need it in order for your Pmr to pay you the claim BUT who should sign it and how many times (at present Cols and above who can self certify have to sign it twice).

    My point is that there is lots of boring technical detail for the period 27 Mar-27 Nov that we need [quickly so that we can tell the punters].

    PS well done I know that (girly?)SO2 as well .... and she needs a shave!

    PPS It isn't complete yet there are no rates tables ... which are rather vital.