The New Cold War

Who is the most dangerous in this New Cold War

  • USA

  • UK

  • Russia/Russian Federation

  • China

  • North Korea

  • Random Middle East Threat

  • EU

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
How much did DoD spend in Camh Ran bay?I
Good question, apparently LBJ gave Brown and Root (Halliburton/KBR) a No Bid contract (just as FDR had done in WW2) and they eventually were building 85% of all USN shore based facilities (While being VERY generous to LBJ election coffers since 1941)
Bribes
 
I have a feeling that the Syrian adventure is simply an(other) example of Putin's braggado-driven folly, rather than any clever geo-strategic move, and that the military effort and bases will prove quite counter-productive for Russia.

The bases are strategically isolated and thus militarily useless: in a hypothetical WW3 conflict they'd be little more than the equivalent of the Berlin garrison - instantly cut off from resupply or relief, and with token forces liable to be eliminated by overwhelmingly superior local enemy assets.

Until such a WW3 kicks off, Russia has placed some of its most hi-tech weaponry and systems right within easy surveillance reach of some of the western worlds most capable players. Hence there will be a constant bleed of sensitive information to the west.

The Syrian adventure itself has simply blackened Russia's international reputation even further, particularly by association with a murderous regime capable of using CW on its own population. Apart from the bases, Syria appears to offer Russia no worthwhile benefit. Russia's own rather warped world view is better served by its previous seditious activities in its bordering neighbours.
The old USSR has a reasonable footprint in the ME with the big regional player in the area Egypt being pro Russian in the 70s. Russia has lost influence of Egypt and will strive to maintain its influence over its next biggest regional player Syria.

Russia has historically neeeded warm water ports. Archangel/Murmansk in the north gets frozen up.

The black sea fleet is bottled up by Turkey.

The Baltic fleet is bottled up by Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark et al.

It’s Pacific fleet is bottled up by the US/Japan/China.

Russia’s naval desires are nothing new. It’s got the same problems now that it had at the start of the 20th century.

Russia’s current issues in the Ukraine aren’t new. We fought the Crimean war over similar reasons.
 
The old USSR has a reasonable footprint in the ME with the big regional player in the area Egypt being pro Russian in the 70s. Russia has lost influence of Egypt and will strive to maintain its influence over its next biggest regional player Syria.

Russia has historically neeeded warm water ports. Archangel/Murmansk in the north gets frozen up.

The black sea fleet is bottled up by Turkey.

The Baltic fleet is bottled up by Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark et al.

It’s Pacific fleet is bottled up by the US/Japan/China.

Russia’s naval desires are nothing new. It’s got the same problems now that it had at the start of the 20th century.

Russia’s current issues in the Ukraine aren’t new. We fought the Crimean war over similar reasons.


The trouble is, Russia/Putin seems incapable of understanding that the physical geography of the world hasn't changed, and that they'll never have free ocean access for a fleet.

Germany also was very slow to catch on, but they only needed a quick reminder second time around in WW2 and abandoned their surface fleet.

The paradox for Russia has always been why do they need a warm water port? In peacetime they've had easy land trade routes since the steam train was invented, and in wartime they've been too landbound to exert any real seapower.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
The old USSR has a reasonable footprint in the ME with the big regional player in the area Egypt being pro Russian in the 70s. Russia has lost influence of Egypt and will strive to maintain its influence over its next biggest regional player Syria.

Russia has historically neeeded warm water ports. Archangel/Murmansk in the north gets frozen up.

The black sea fleet is bottled up by Turkey.

The Baltic fleet is bottled up by Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark et al.

It’s Pacific fleet is bottled up by the US/Japan/China.

Russia’s naval desires are nothing new. It’s got the same problems now that it had at the start of the 20th century.

Russia’s current issues in the Ukraine aren’t new. We fought the Crimean war over similar reasons.
Um....yeah, I knew all that Andy...having served in dark blue and more pertinent good old MoD for a while ..what else have you got?
 
The trouble is, Russia/Putin seems incapable of understanding that the physical geography of the world hasn't changed, and that they'll never have free ocean access for a fleet.

Germany also was very slow to catch on, but they only needed a quick reminder second time around in WW2 and abandoned their surface fleet.

The paradox for Russia has always been why do they need a warm water port? In peacetime they've had easy land trade routes since the steam train was invented, and in wartime they've been too landbound to exert any real seapower.
I guess it's the reality that Naval dominance is a significant factor in having worldwide political power. Gun Boat diplomacy has always been more about prestige than shore bombardment and Putin clearly wants Russia to be a serious world power.
 
My, my, what a very erudite and measured response. I was particularly impressed by your sophisticated counter-arguments. You should be a Tory politician.:smile::smile::smile:

MsG
I only read as far as this. Apologies if it’s said further down.


Bugsy you twat.


I’m generally on your side but f f f s you f f knobber.


The Yanks are... I dunno. You know how a good bloke can have faults but still be a good bloke?

That’s the Yanks.

You know how a real shitty bastard can have some good points-funny, gets his round in- but still be a real shitty bastard?

That’s Russia.

We want democracy, good governance, the rule of law and a degree of equality.

The Russians currently don’t.


Grasp a grip mate.
 
I only read as far as this. Apologies if it’s said further down.


Bugsy you twat.


I’m generally on your side but f f f s you f f knobber.


The Yanks are... I dunno. You know how a good bloke can have faults but still be a good bloke?

That’s the Yanks.

You know how a real shitty bastard can have some good points-funny, gets his round in- but still be a real shitty bastard?

That’s Russia.

We want democracy, good governance, the rule of law and a degree of equality.

The Russians currently don’t.


Grasp a grip mate.
Hmm, biased much? Have you genuinely tried to be a bit more open-minded on the subject? Your decidedly Manichaean view of things seems to indicate that you've swallowed a lot of the propaganda.

What's really interesting in your post is this
"We want democracy, good governance, the rule of law and a degree of equality" [Unquote]. Do you think the Russians don't want all that? I get the impression that you really believe the droll bolllix that: "Wee iz da good guys". "We" aren't!

Do you really believe that the Septic and Brit (and the Irish) gobments aren't just as corrupt as any others? They (the politicians) have no interest whatsoever in "democracy, good governance, the rule of law and a degree of equality". If they did, then we'd have all of those elements in our societies right now. How long have we been at this (pseudo-)democracy caper? 200 years? 300? If you believe some folks it's more like 600 years. Surely that's more than enough time to achieve some sort of enlightenment about the condition of humankind and endeavour to do something about it. What's to stop any gobment from making sure that the majority of the population has a living wage, peace, security and the assurance that they can live a life in human dignity?

The fact is that everything, but everything that makes life in our societies halfways endurable (five-day week, eight-hour day, holiday pay, sick pay, social housing, social benefits, pensions, etc) has been very grudginly handed over because the privileged classes at the time feared open revolt and losing their "fortunes". All that was not given to us normal folks out of the goodness of their hearts and because they're so "benign" towards us. It was hard-fought (and often died) for.

Everyone would like democracy, good governance, the rule of law and a degree of equality, but we'll only get that if we frighten the shites out of the privileged classes and force them to concede. They won't do it voluntarily. They never have. Think about it.

MsG
 
More bollocks.

YfM
Decided to go a bit berserk on the SAB button, eh, Odd_Job? Ah well, only to be expected from a gobshite like you.:p

MsG
 
Decided to go a bit berserk on the SAB button, eh, Odd_Job? Ah well, only to be expected from a gobshite like you.:p

MsG
That's pretty funny coming from a ballistic button masher of your stature.
Every negative rating you've received has been justly deserved across a decade & more of you posting ridiculous shite alles uber der platz.

You fucking Mong.
 
That's pretty funny coming from a ballistic button masher of your stature.
Every negative rating you've received has been justly deserved across a decade & more of you posting ridiculous shite alles uber der platz.

You fucking Mong.
Ah, bless you. I hope you get better soon. Although it's a bit early for drinkies, innit? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

MsG
 
Ah, bless you. I hope you get better soon. Although it's a bit early for drinkies, innit? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

MsG
Not at all: It's 00:17 here & I'm about to hit the sack.

Later today, I'll be eating fine food & drinking some absolutely exquisite wine, having spent the day outdoors in glorious sunshine - pretty much the antithesis of your day; sat hunched over your failing laptop in your semen besplattered bedsit, drinking a 'cocktail' of Special Brew & Aldi vodka & 'feasting' on the remains of last night's uneaten pizza. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
......if only there was a blinkered German speaker on this site who could profess his love for Communism and the evil of the Americans at every turn despite all the evidence of Soviet/Russian crimes, someone with more chips on his shoulder than Harry Ramsden's

Perhaps a self-confessed drug dealer whose family had been murdered a couple of times by the British Army and who held a degree in Pigeon Shouting from the University of Barking? Someone wedded to a disgraced and discredited murderous political ideology that was abandoned by most of the world thiry years ago?

But where would we find such a philosophical God amongst men?
 
Not at all: It's 00:17 here & I'm about to hit the sack.

Later today, I'll be eating fine food & drinking some absolutely exquisite wine, having spent the day outdoors in glorious sunshine - pretty much the antithesis of your day; sat hunched over your failing laptop in your semen besplattered bedsit, drinking a 'cocktail' of Special Brew & Aldi vodka & 'feasting' on the remains of last night's uneaten pizza. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
You got a camera in my bedsit...YOU PERVERT!!!!
 
Theres a fairly erudite analysis of the Syrian situation from the Moscow Times:

In Syria, Moscow Is Defending a Narrative, Not a Country (Op-ed)


Putin's regime has built an enormous house of cards in the false narrative that it has drummed into the Russian population, and now faces the problem that the structure is unstable and likely to fall apart.


Quite by coincidence, another young full-of-life journalist has suffered a tragic accidental death. Sadly, his investigation into Russia's Wagner group in Syria will now have to close.

Russian Journalist Investigating Syria Mercenaries Dies After Falling From Apartment Window


In other news, the only remaining social media app that refuses to allow the FSB full access to private traffic - Telegram - has been shut down in Russia from today (Facebook's WhatsApp has, by contrast, apparently been most accommodating to the regime....). In a small glimmer of the "back to the USSR" refusenik dark humour, English-Russia has chosen to tack this news of censorship onto a nice photo montage of Stalin's happiest pictures:

Smiling Stalin Photos [photos] | English Russia
 
Hmm, biased much? Have you genuinely tried to be a bit more open-minded on the subject? Your decidedly Manichaean view of things seems to indicate that you've swallowed a lot of the propaganda.

What's really interesting in your post is this
I think the quote function went wrong there but never mind.

Yeah, you’re right about the grudging nature of any improvement and the way conservative (small ‘c’) elements from King John onwards have fought change.



But you’re making a serious mistake if you think our form of government is worthless.

Was it Churchill who said ‘democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all the others’?

It is crap. We get mostly dreadful politicians, they’re in the pocket of callous rip-off merchants, the Civil Service is, if generally honest, generally sluggish.


Would you rather have a Putin style system? Old fashioned authoritarianism a la Franco or Brezhnev?

1800s style ‘democracy’?


Don’t discard what we’ve got. It maybe is shit but we worked very very hard to get it.
 

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