The New Airbridge

#1
I haven't posted on here very often at all; every time I have lookd on here it is just to gauge how Movers are thought of. One thing that I have noticed is that in the last couple of years critisiscm of Movers seems to have tailed off a little.

I believe that some of this may in part be due to improvements made at places such as Al Udeid. Obviously now the airbridge has moved to Kuwait. The system sees the passenger in terminals with lesser facilities than Al Udeid, but (more importantly in my opinion) alot less time on the ground due to cross decking of aircraft and quicker transfers.

What are your views of the Movements process at the moment? How do you feel the new airbridge is performing? Are there any issues that need addressing? Remember to state the location of any problems encountered and whether or not it was Army or RAF Movers that you had a problem with (or were assisted by)?

Have things improved recently?

I've obviously got a vested interest in this. I am a Mover and your feedback will help me in my decision making when setting up and running current and future detachments...

Note: Please try to refrain from turning it into a Mover hating thread, as it just detracts from what I am tryng to achieve with the thread.
 
#2
jjandellis said:
I've obviously got a vested interest in this. I am a Mover and your feedback will help me in my decision making when setting up and running current and future detachments...
You've posted on here 3 times so it isn't obvious who you are or what you do. I'd also be doubtful whether you could really influence most of the issues faced by the guys moving across the air bridge. Sorry to sound cynical. Also - most people are not that constructive when they post about such things as they don't properly understand the system.
 
#3
jjandellis said:
I've obviously got a vested interest in this. I am a Mover and your feedback will help me in my decision making when setting up and running current and future detachments...
Any hint of your position or unit?

Are you still in Germany?

How much is your current daily rate of LOA?
 
#4
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
jjandellis said:
I've obviously got a vested interest in this. I am a Mover and your feedback will help me in my decision making when setting up and running current and future detachments...
You've posted on here 3 times so it isn't obvious who you are or what you do. I'd also be doubtful whether you could really influence most of the issues faced by the guys moving across the air bridge. Sorry to sound cynical. Also - most people are not that constructive when they post about such things as they don't properly understand the system.
Fair enough, it probably isn't obvious who I am. Maybe if I had told you I was a Mover earlier it would be more obvious that I had a vested interest, but lets not get caught up in the weeds.

Although I'm not at a level to actually enforce high level policy changes, I am in a position to change low level policy i.e. how a detachment is run. I'm also in a position to pass feedback up the chain, with my 'SME' slant on things; also in a position to decide what training we do at a sub unit level in preperation for an Op tour.

A little bit of background to my last sentence. Our old Class 3 course was 12 weeks in total. However it is now 6 weeks total, with a lot of emphasis placed on in house training by units to get individuals to complete their 'Record of Workplace Experience'. This scheme throws up problems such as standardisation, quality of training (alot of guys are not necessarily good instructors) and actual training time (most SNCO's are deployed a large amount of the time AND sometimes timeframes/pressures on movements operations may mean training becomes neglected). So why am I focussing on the last sentence? Well if there if there are constructive comments, this thread can be used as a tool that helps us decided where we are going right or wrong. It can be used to help influence PDT (and if anybody in the sqn doubts the validity of suggested PDT, then the thread can be pointed to as some form of evidence).
 
#5
chocolate_frog said:
jjandellis said:
I've obviously got a vested interest in this. I am a Mover and your feedback will help me in my decision making when setting up and running current and future detachments...
Any hint of your position or unit?

Are you still in Germany?

How much is your current daily rate of LOA?
The only reasoning I can see in this post is to confim whether I am a genuine Mover. If that is the case, then I'm happy to answer. If not, well shoot me down!

1. SNCO, 24 Regt RLC. Based in Germany.

2. LOA went up to £30 a day and then back down to £25. However I haven't checked my pay statement for the last 2 months (too busy) so it could be anything by now.
 

Percy_Pigeon

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#6
Why have you not posted this in the RLC thread surely the valued feed back received from your fellow shifters will help share the feed back.
 
#7
Percy_Pigeon said:
Why have you not posted this in the RLC thread surely the valued feed back received from your fellow shifters will help share the feed back.
1. I believe posting it in the RLC thread may not gain it as much exposure to other arms, who may not check the RLC forum by force of habit (to me it says its an RLC forum).

2. The subtitle of this forum is 'anything else G4'. This is definitely G4!

3. Gaining the feedback of fellow movers is easy. I talk to other SNCO's in the mess and I plug my JNCO's in the office. Anyone else gets locked in the crew room and told to unload. Gaining the pax feedback can be a little more difficult which incidentally is something I feel we do quite badly on as there aren't exactly many comments boxes at our airheads.
 
#8
How is your relationship with the RAF Movers then? Do you think there is room for improvement there? Perhaps some cross-training and better understanding?
 
#13
If you want the 'customers perspective' maybe you should post this on ArmyNET aswell.

This may give you the honest (ish) feedback and grab the CofC views at the same time. Worth a try.
 
#14
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
Horridlittleman said:
jjandellis said:
2. The subtitle of this forum is 'anything else G4'. This is definitely G4!
Movements is a G3 function.
Movements is a J4 / G4 / A4 / N4 function, dumbass. You do know your 1 to 9 don't you?
I certainly do. So answer me this - why do you have a G3 Mover in a 2* HQ. Just because the people who carry out that function or enable it are loggies (or RAF equivalent) doesn't make it G/J/N/A 4.

I think the 'dumbass' is a little unnecessary, it's not the NAAFI. Some of us have standards.
 
#15
If jjandellis came in here open minded ,with a desire to try and elicit some genuine customer feedback, he or she had probably had close to their share of "demotivational posters" by now.

How about giving them a break?

Is there somewhere else readers can go to, to throw stones at each other?
 
#16
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
How is your relationship with the RAF Movers then? Do you think there is room for improvement there? Perhaps some cross-training and better understanding?
This is a bit of a minefield, as I'm sure you are already aware. It appears inevitable that we are heading down the purple triservice road (in some form or other) - but thats not to say I think its right. I greatly disagree with the notion of training our movers at a joint school.

TBH the whole ethos and attitudes of the two services mean that Movers from the 2 are always going to approach tasks differently and aren't always going to see eye to eye.

I've known some very good, outstanding professional RAF Movers; also some outrageously poor ones. Similar can be said of RLC movers.

While I don't want this to seem like the first salvo of a pissing match, I will not begin to compare RLC movers abilities versus RAF Movers abilities over road/rail/sea movement. Its a non starter, its our bread and butter.

The real thing that we both do and what effects large numbers of personnel is air movements. We CAN work together well, but politics and individuals bitterness in some detachments can be divisive and destructive. But more importantly I believe the mindset sets us apart.

Most guys/girls joined the army to deploy and undertake their job in 'interesting conditions'. Even movers undertake a minimum of fieldcraft training. Movements regiments frequently deploy on Ex (when not tasked with ops). On the flip side I believe some join the RAF looking for something else. I don't know, maybe someday somebody will enlighen me. But many a time I have heard lads say they can't wait to get back into their light blue farrahs and jumper.

Altogether I believe they have a more civilian outlook. Which coincidentally is something they do very well - they make sure they all get qualifications transferred over to civvy street.

I believe that the RLC movers (minimal) understanding of what an infanteer does helps him emphasise somewhat more with the passengers. On the other hand I feel that the RAF mover is not fully at ease when dealing with soldiers. They are much more comfortable moving freight/cargo.

The smoothest detachment I have worked in has seen all pax movement and handling done by a small team of RLC Movers. All cargo work done by KBR and the only RAF mover to be the DAMO. Although this seems a slight at the RAF it is not. The DAMO was/is very good and can lend a high degree of knowledge to the team. On the other hand the army movers offer more flexibility, step up to the plate and are a little more understanding of pax needs. All the KBR boys are ex RAF.

In short I think that the best way is to have pax looked after by the army; freight/cargo done by UKMAMs. This sees each party working well within a field it feels comfortable and with a small degree of interface with the other.
 
#17
Apologies I missed a point, by way of some bad editing by myself.

I do agree that we should have some degree of cross training - however going the whole hog and have a Joint Service Movements Wing training our soldiers at Brize Norton looks a bad idea to me.
 
#18
horridlittleman - movements is a logistical function and therefore comes under 4 - I don't know which particular 2*HQ you are talking about, but having someone from the Movs world working in G3 does not make it Ops. It means there is a small chance that Ops might understand the impact of Movs.

I guess that you are not a logistician then.

jj - some good points that have arisen from the RAF Movs worst enemy - themselves - I'll explain more later.

Edited to add - for horridlittleman:

If you have access, please look at AC 71819, 'Army Doctrine Publications' Land Operations. It is in the EBB. Chapter 5.4, Functional Groupings, clearly places Movements with all other Logistical functions, which are all within CSS. Seems fair enough to me. Logistics - numbah 4!
 
#19
I was a Mover for 12 years and then escaped into the civilian environment. A long time ago I must add!
From the posts I have seen recently and talking with locals returning on R and R. end of tour, in the pub, the same problems come up time and time again:-

U/S airframes resulting in multiple delays and cutting their valuable R and R slot with family.
Time spent waiting after check in - even before delays are incurred
Facilities at some locations lacking basic comforts
Little, poor or no feedback on delays or updates
Lost/mis-directed baggage/personal effect
Movement to/from UK departure airfield for individuals/small parties

There are no bad operatives only bad managers and supervision. If problems are not constantly reviewed or individuals not pulled up ref attitude, the way a situation was handled etc they will just carry on thinking this is the norm and get worse at their job.
This is the case in any service industry - you look at service issues and see where and what went wrong and you fix it. There are awkward people in civvy street that can cause max grief to their contractor so issues are properly addressed. Surely at unit level there can be scenarios set up with "awkward/demanding customers, especially for managers and supervisors, but exposing the guys at MCCP/check in level to the flak and how to take it, respond to it and keep the appropriate level of info flowing. Hiding from pax or feeding them horse-shit is not the way to endear yourself to anybody, as they have been treated like walk on freight before and did not like it then.
The reduction in time spent on trade training worries me as the time spent at unit level preparing movers for each trade course will be non existent with the work involved with deployment, pre deployment training, military training etc and even worse for the TA Mover seconded for an Ops tour.
The Joint Service Training seems farcical if you are trying to cram in normal movements and then specialist RAF training in that short space of time.
As an ex junior soldier, that thought he knew everything when he left the comforts of Taunton. I was soon taken under the wing of some excellent Jnr/SNCOs throughout my time as a mover and made sure that everythng was passed on to any person I was responsible for.
 
#20
peem said:
I was a Mover for 12 years and then escaped into the civilian environment. A long time ago I must add!
From the posts I have seen recently and talking with locals returning on R and R. end of tour, in the pub, the same problems come up time and time again:-

U/S airframes resulting in multiple delays and cutting their valuable R and R slot with family.
Time spent waiting after check in - even before delays are incurred
Facilities at some locations lacking basic comforts
Little, poor or no feedback on delays or updates
Lost/mis-directed baggage/personal effect
Movement to/from UK departure airfield for individuals/small parties

There are no bad operatives only bad managers and supervision. If problems are not constantly reviewed or individuals not pulled up ref attitude, the way a situation was handled etc they will just carry on thinking this is the norm and get worse at their job.
This is the case in any service industry - you look at service issues and see where and what went wrong and you fix it. There are awkward people in civvy street that can cause max grief to their contractor so issues are properly addressed. Surely at unit level there can be scenarios set up with "awkward/demanding customers, especially for managers and supervisors, but exposing the guys at MCCP/check in level to the flak and how to take it, respond to it and keep the appropriate level of info flowing. Hiding from pax or feeding them horse-s*** is not the way to endear yourself to anybody, as they have been treated like walk on freight before and did not like it then.
The reduction in time spent on trade training worries me as the time spent at unit level preparing movers for each trade course will be non existent with the work involved with deployment, pre deployment training, military training etc and even worse for the TA Mover seconded for an Ops tour.
The Joint Service Training seems farcical if you are trying to cram in normal movements and then specialist RAF training in that short space of time.
As an ex junior soldier, that thought he knew everything when he left the comforts of Taunton. I was soon taken under the wing of some excellent Jnr/SNCOs throughout my time as a mover and made sure that everythng was passed on to any person I was responsible for.
All superb points. Well written.
 

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