The 'Myth' of welfare scroungers

#1
#2
The Guardian picked this up...............................well 'tickle my tits til' Thursday, who would have thought it!?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
The welfare scrounger is exposed as myth by new report (From The Northern Echo)

I noticed the Guardian online had picked this up end effectively re-reported it.

Pity they didn't re-report the shed load of comments, mostly from locals, who seemed to think the researchers were walking around with their eyes shut.
You mean like this comment?

I live on a small housing estate in Co. Durham paid for with a mortgage and savings/ proceeds from sale of previous home and due to the collapse of the property boom the estate was left part finished until a property developer purchased the remaining shells and completed them in order to rent them out.

The estate has 24 3/4/5 bedroom homes and 20 are currently occupied by unemployed families that have never and have not intention of taking up employment. I know that from these families that at least 16 families come from 2nd and 3rd generation unemployed families so if I can find them on my housing estate how can they find nobody at all in Glasgow and Middlesbrough?

On another note from the 20 homes occupied by claimants the average age is 29yrs and a large portion of them have teenage children who from their current attitude have no intention of taking up employment when they leave school so that will make them a 4th generation!!

Just doing a quick calculation - the usual trend of these people is to breed as soon as possible so given that they start at 17 and working backwards for someone who has just given birth it looks like this:
2012 - 4th generation born
1994 - 3rd generation born
1976 - 2nd generation born
1958 - 1st generation born

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong.
Strange that - the world and his uncle know about the minority of people ripping the piss out of benefits, but the researchers can't find any examples.

Wordsmith
 
#5
You mean like this comment?



Strange that - the world and his uncle know about the minority of people ripping the piss out of benefits, but the researchers can't find any examples.

Wordsmith
So hearsay & prejudice is more valid that empirical evidence?

I find the first paragraph most telling: rich bankers greed breaks economy; housing market collapses; rich property developers (those same bankers?) buy on the cheap; we pay to put the poor in their houses as tenants (cos there are no council houses); the rich get richer and the poor get blamed as scroungers.
 
#8
David Cameron himself said that we are now just starting to get a second generation of people solely dependent on benefits and that something needs to be done to stop it becoming endemic.

Is this case I'd rather believe DC and his sources rather than two professors who ave a narrow scope and who's livelihood depends on writing thesis challenging what is perceived as the norm - could this lead them to making shit up? I suspect their work isn't entirely accurate.
 
#9
So hearsay & prejudice is more valid that empirical evidence?
When people's experiences contradict "empirical evidence" , then Yes.

Researchers, by their very nature take snapshots of time with which to work, couple that with an inbuilt tendency to view evidence on the basis of what they already believe, either directly or indirectly, and a need to keep their stream of funding happy..........
 
#10
David Cameron himself said that we are now just starting to get a second generation of people solely dependent on benefits and that something needs to be done to stop it becoming endemic.

Is this case I'd rather believe DC and his sources rather than two professors who ave a narrow scope and who's livelihood depends on writing thesis challenging what is perceived as the norm - could this lead them to making shit up? I suspect their work isn't entirely accurate.
Commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation who work to an agenda and would not want a report that said anything else.
 
#11
So hearsay & prejudice is more valid that empirical evidence?

I find the first paragraph most telling: rich bankers greed breaks economy; housing market collapses; rich property developers (those same bankers?) buy on the cheap; we pay to put the poor in their houses as tenants (cos there are no council houses); the rich get richer and the poor get blamed as scroungers.
Empirical evidence, is merely the opinion of a 'supposed' expert, it can no more be relied on as the truth, as hearsay. Otherwise there would be no point in entering a 'Not Guilty' plea in Court.
 
#12
So hearsay & prejudice is more valid that empirical evidence? .......................
How could they show empirically that something (like this) does not exist? Did they check the whole population of the cities?
I would suggest the research consisted of asking questions(?) Therefore, effectively, hearsay.
Then again, why let fact get in the way of a good anti capitalist/government rant?
 
#13
There are a lot of people who post on ARRSE, who leap to the defence of people accused of gaming the tax system. Typical comments are along the lines of, 'Good luck to them', 'Why should people pay more than they have to?' and 'I'd do it myself if I earned that kind of money.'

The flipside of that is that if, after an education by teachers who thought it was morally wrong to teach you literacy and where all they actually wanted you to learn was how great black people and homosexuals are, you are looking at selling your life in a hateful job working for a bunch of cnuts who regard you as a worthless drone and would sack you in a heartbeat if it suited them (notwithstanding the constant demands they make for your loyalty), being a dolie would be the obvious choice.

I'd do the same myself if I was them.
 
#17
I'll say one thing for the 20 families on the estate; they might be workshy cnuts but they've been very helpful to their neighbour when he's been conducting his little, but highly detailed survey. Tolerant, too. I mean, who'd want to live anywhere near a nasty little **** like that?

Heh, probably the only details of any accuracy in his comment are likely to be the ones he's provided about himself. I should imagine that at least one of his neighbours will be able to read; word of mouth should propogate sufficiently.

I'll be keeping my eye open for a lurid headline along the lines of "Sole Homeowner On Co. Durham Pikey Estate Discovered Arse-Raped To Death With Rolled-Up Benefits Handbook".
 
#18

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
I think the claims are that unemployed families are not scrounging - they don't seem to ask if they are actively seeking employment though.

dave (ex gloucesters) near me says he wants to be a plumber and has done some of the training, nice bloke but he doesn't seem to be looking for anything else.

I've known plenty who regard signing on as their day job and their 14 hours working in a pub as their part time job then complain how knackered they are.
 

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