The 'Myth' of the Afrika Korps ?

Why?....It is no more of a digression from the myth of the Desert Fox than many another already rehearsed here...it bears ( although tangentially) on the character of Rommel.

That is - was he the Reich's Golden Boy who could do no wrong ( until he lost)?

- or a humane, essentially decent professional soldat working for a regime composed of the criminally insane?

Don't flounce old top, always good to have an alternative view.

I've seen the pictures of Rommel.


He was hot.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
You should always have doubts about any senior commander who has his own PR team to hand at every turn.

Erm.....Douglas MacArthur also springs to mind....
 
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Until we repeated the whole learning exercise again in Normandy as our institutional learning was AWOL.... The veteran Divisions from North Africa were seen by Montgomery as gun shy and nervous. But the casualty rates suggested the UK based Divisions training was a joke.
indeed.

recall reading about some big attack in Normandy.... dashing newly raised young blades haring off over the horizon in their Cromwell’s as the old sweats in Sherman's moved forward gingerly, considering every movement.....
....the cautious old sweats passed their burning wrecks soon enough. Montgomery not happy at their lack of ‘aggression’.

aggressively charging dug in 88’s just gets you dead.
 

Glad_its_all_over

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Book Reviewer
Getting back to the DAK/Panzerarmee Afrika, one of the reasons the desert war was thought to be 'clean' was the relative lack of civpop and hence fewer chances for casual atrocity. Things got a touch tastier in the TORCH area, apparently....
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Getting back to the DAK/Panzerarmee Afrika, one of the reasons the desert war was thought to be 'clean' was the relative lack of civpop and hence fewer chances for casual atrocity. Things got a touch tastier in the TORCH area, apparently....
Indeed it was well known that the only party presence was a field security police office (Gestapo cover story allegedly) in Tripoli
 
indeed.

recall reading about some big attack in Normandy.... dashing newly raised young blades haring off over the horizon in their Cromwell’s as the old sweats in Sherman's moved forward gingerly, considering every movement.....
....the cautious old sweats passed their burning wrecks soon enough. Montgomery not happy at their lack of ‘aggression’.

aggressively charging dug in 88’s just gets you dead.
Summat else was that Normandy bocage etc wasn't exactly Mersa Matruh. Different cover etc.
Old soldiers get to be old because theyve seen what over confidence does and avoid it. Survivors from the desert war walked the same bit of ground from Alamein to Tobruk in opposite directions a few times. Must have made them cynical of the leadership and not to keen to boldly and blindly go.
 
...and they had a great deal of respect for the 88, the 75mm Pak, the MG 34 and 42, the stick grenade, the MP 40 and the 81mm mortar. Deadly in 1942 and equally so two years later, added to which came the Nebelwerfer, the Panzerschreck, the Panzerfaust, the Tiger and the Panther. No wonder they were cautious.
 
...and they had a great deal of respect for the 88, the 75mm Pak, the MG 34 and 42, the stick grenade, the MP 40 and the 81mm mortar. Deadly in 1942 and equally so two years later, added to which came the Nebelwerfer, the Panzerschreck, the Panzerfaust, the Tiger and the Panther. No wonder they were cautious.
The Tiger was first encountered by the British in North Africa.
 
Taranto - The first decisive use of carrier borne torpedo bombers. Such a crushing victory that RN Wardrooms celebrate it as much as Trafalgar to this day. Believed to have given Yamamoto the inspiration for his tactics in December 1941, some 13 months later.
Believed incorrectly, it is to be observed.

The idea of a carrier strike on Pearl Harbor was first wargamed by the Japanese War College in 1927. Then-Captain Yamamoto gave a lecture on the topic in 1928. The actual Pearl Harbor attack was first mooted in Spring 1940, and Admiral Takijiro was instructed to begin his serious study of the attack planning in October of 1940.

The Japanese were certainly paying attention at Taranto, but Taranto wasn't the source of the idea.
 

Goatman

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Book Reviewer
This is why Baader Meinhof came into being.
as stated above /|\


After I had written ' Rommel: stone Nazi or bon soldat? ' , I then employed my dark Google-fu arts -and this popped up:

Was the Desert Fox an honest soldier or just another Nazi?


Mr Proske is not the only German historian committed to reappraising the general. A new warts-and-all feature film about Rommel is scheduled to be shown on German television next year. Apart from examining his wartime role in the desert, the film by Germany's SWR broadcasting channel is also expected to cast doubt on claims that he was also deeply involved in the failed 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler.


Rommel's alleged role in the plot prompted the Nazis to arrest him and offer him the choice of trial and certain execution or suicide. He chose the latter. Historians have since concluded that Rommel was not one of the plotters against Hitler, although those who were involved wanted him to join them.


Nick Stein, the film's director, argues that the production attempts to portray Rommel as a military leader who belonged to a generation of wartime Germans who "realised only too late that the person they have served with such a passion is a criminal".

Although it has yet to be screened, the film has already elicited an angry response from the Rommel family. Its members include Rommel's son, Manfred, the 82-year-old former conservative mayor of Stuttgart. The family has complained that the advance publicity for the film wrongly portrays Rommel as an "upstart, a favourite of Hitler", and as a Nazi war criminal. "This is simply untrue. These are lies," the family complained in a letter to SWR's director general.

The broadcaster has since submitted the film's script to a prominent group of historians and military experts for examination. They recently praised the film for its "precision".

The controversy is certain to continue. It also seems destined to present Germany's municipal and military authorities with an awkward problem.

There are 22 Rommel streets in Germany and the armed forces have two military barracks named after him[/quote.
Believed incorrectly, it is to be observed.
The idea of a carrier strike on Pearl Harbor was first wargamed by the Japanese War College in 1927. Then-Captain Yamamoto gave a lecture on the topic in 1928. The actual Pearl Harbor attack was first mooted in Spring 1940, and Admiral Takijiro was instructed to begin his serious study of the attack planning in October of 1940.
The Japanese were certainly paying attention at Taranto, but Taranto wasn't the source of the idea.



Interesting....It turns out RN staff planning for Taranto went back to 1938 :)
 
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Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Have to say it was uniformly Harry Feckin Redders where I was....but equally,up at Safwan in March they torrential rain and mud .
 
Believed incorrectly, it is to be observed.

The idea of a carrier strike on Pearl Harbor was first wargamed by the Japanese War College in 1927. Then-Captain Yamamoto gave a lecture on the topic in 1928. The actual Pearl Harbor attack was first mooted in Spring 1940, and Admiral Takijiro was instructed to begin his serious study of the attack planning in October of 1940.

The Japanese were certainly paying attention at Taranto, but Taranto wasn't the source of the idea.
read on Fleet Problem V, April 1925.

i thoroughly recommend this Book. Buy direct from the Library of Congress bookshop, I got a very substantial military discount and free delivery

 
(...) However going south East for Russia’s oil resrves and concentrating on separating Russia from those, was far more sensible than bothering about Moscow.-why because the concentration on Capitals had failed for Napoleon. But North Africa had oil reserves that could be exploited and that was known about pre war. (...)
Where were significant pre-war oil reserves found in North Africa? All the sources that I have seen said that the first significant finds in Libya and Algeria came in the mid to late 1950s.
 
Where were significant pre-war oil reserves found in North Africa? All the sources that I have seen said that the first significant finds in Libya and Algeria came in the mid to late 1950s.

That seems to be correct...

 
The Tiger was first encountered by the British in North Africa.
Where the Krauts also encountered the 17pdr for the first time. Result, 17pdr won, Tiger lost.

Rommel at one point commanded Adolf's bodyguard battalion, you didn't get to do that unless you were a committed Nazi.
 

ancient

War Hero
Have to say it was uniformly Harry Feckin Redders where I was....but equally,up at Safwan in March they torrential rain and mud .
Moroccan desert 10 years ago I encountered sleet and a howling gale. So much so that it blew away my tightly grasped last piece of bog roll. Leaving me with nothing to wipe my arse with except spinifex thorn bush or gravel. A difficult choice leading to a depressing day.
 

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