The 'Myth' of the Afrika Korps ?

Except f they had actually taken Cairo and Egypt as they very nearly did?

At one point, the possibility was close enough to start burning confidential papers and evacuate non combatants.

They would soon have had all the oil they needed
If they actually planned it properly as I had mentioned above, and did not have victory disease they might have pulled it off.
 
Initial German deployments predated the Balkan invasion, conquest of Greece then Crete. With Barbarossa becoming the main effort for the Wehrmacht. The transfer of Battle of Britain pilots with Spits to Malta, Beauforts interdicted shipped supplies to Norrh Africa
One point to note is the large troop influx to counter the Torch landings of November 42
There is a great painting online somewhere showing Yankee P40s wiping out the Luftwaffe transports
 
Initial German deployments predated the Balkan invasion, conquest of Greece then Crete. With Barbarossa becoming the main effort for the Wehrmacht. The transfer of Battle of Britain pilots with Spits to Malta, Beauforts interdicted shipped supplies to Norrh Africa
One point to note is the large troop influx to counter the Torch landings of November 42
There is a great painting online somewhere showing Yankee P40s wiping out the Luftwaffe transports

It was a joint OP the RAF kept the German escorts occupied and the massacre commenced.
 
The document is genuine, from some Bundesarchiv or the other, it was also mentioned at the IMT in Nuremberg.

View attachment 434232
View attachment 434233
https://www.uni-marburg.de/icwc/dateien/ntvol34.pdf

The 400 men strong Half Bataillon was from the Jewish Brigade of the British Army and only attached to the Free French. There were also 2 Bataillons of the Foreign Legion at Bir Hakeim also and Germans served in them without doubt. The order included every German jewish or not. OB Süd at the Commando Supremo Albert Kesselring was in Rome and he had to be privy. I don't know if the Italians were informed.
Thanks for that, not belabour the point, I would be under the impression that the Italians had to be aware of the fact. But also the fact that the Allies had taken over most of the records from May 1945. The allied commission was very powerful in respect these things.
 
They had the so called "Einsatzgruppe Ägypten" commanded by Obersturmbannführer Rauff. They were even at Tobruk on 20.07.1942 but relocated to Athens, waiting for the victory in Afrika.
No, only Rauff flew to Tobruk to receive his instructions from Rommel. However as Rommel was 500 Km further East at the First Battle of Alamein, Rauff would presumably have been briefed by one of Rommel's staff officers. However in the Ia-, Ic, or the O.Qu-documents of PzAA held by BA-MA there is no evidence of this meeting. This is probably not surprising as PzAA was in the middle of a major battle. Also several batches of PzAA files from this period are missing.

Rauff's 24 man unit transferred from Berlin to Athens on 29 July 1942 to await victory. They could then get to work in Egypt followed by their real target - the Jewish Homeland in Palestine. It could be thought that 24 men was a rather small unit to carry out the proposed tasks. It was, however, intended to recruit local auxiliaries to do the killing as in the Balkans and the Baltic countries.

Rauff is further of interest as he was the instigator, in 1941, of the gas lorries in his post as Gruppenleiter II D responsible for technical matters. First tested on Soviet PoWs in KZ Sachsenhausen, by summer 1942 20 converted vehicles were in operation in the Soviet Union and Serbia.

SOURCES:

Mallmann, Klaus-Michael; and Cüppers, Martin. Halbmond und Hakenkreuz: Das Dritte Reich, die Araber und Palästina. Primus Verlag, Darmstadt, 2011. ISBN 978-3-89678-728-6
**Chapter 8 "Executivmaßnahmen gegenüber der Zivilbevölkerung in eigener Verantwortung": Das Einsatzkommando bei der Panzerarmee Afrika**
Wildt, Michael. Generation des Unbedingten: Das Führungskorps des Reichsicherheitshauptamtes. Hamburger Edition, Hamburg, 2008. ISBN 978-3-930908-87-5
**Pages 739-740**
 

Goatman

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I agree with that. Germany did not control the Med. had Italy managed it‘s Mare Nostrum policy better it might have been a different matter.

Taranto - The first decisive use of carrier borne torpedo bombers. Such a crushing victory that RN Wardrooms celebrate it as much as Trafalgar to this day. Believed to have given Yamamoto the inspiration for his tactics in December 1941, some 13 months later.

Matapan - The second significant battle against the Italian Navy in the Med , ensured that the threat of seaborne action was limited to small ships.
 

Goatman

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Book Reviewer
Rauff is further of interest as he was the instigator, in 1941, of the gas lorries in his post as Gruppenleiter II D responsible for technical matters. First tested on Soviet PoWs in KZ Sachsenhausen, by summer 1942 20 converted vehicles were in operation in the Soviet Union and Serbia.
Digression:

The tentacles of the Nazi post-war apparat were widespread and complex.....many former middle-ranking Nazis found secure posts in the West after the Berlin Wall was built.

Many with lower profiles never went anywhere. The erstwhile Head of European Sales for Porsche for instance.

Take a look at Frederick Forsyth's 'Odessa File' some time.

It was this easy acceptance by West German society that the Red Army Faction / Baader-Meinhof in Germany (1970 -1998 ) were allegedly protesting against, as much as anything else.

@AnotherBerliner is doubtless aware - but for others who may have neglected their reading of Der Spiegel in recent times:

SS Colonel Walter Rauff: West German Intelligence Protected Fugitive Nazi - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

Rauff had been a member of Heinrich Himmler's Reichssicherheitshauptamt - the RSHA , at the heart of the Nazi repression machine.

Died a free man in Santiago, Chile in 1984 despite efforts to extradite him.
 
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diverman

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Book Reviewer
Digression:

The tentacles of the Nazi post-war apparat were widespread and complex.....many former middle-ranking Nazis found secure posts in the West after the Berlin Wall was built.

Many with lower profiles never went anywhere. The erstwhile Head of European Sales for Porsche for instance.

Take a look at Frederick Forsyth's 'Odessa File' some time.

It was this easy acceptance by West Germany society that the Red Army Faction / Baader/Meinhof in Germany (1970 -1998 ) were allegedly protesting against, as much as anything else.

@AnotherBerliner is doubtless aware - but for others who may have neglected their reading of Der Spiegel in recent times:

SS Colonel Walter Rauff: West German Intelligence Protected Fugitive Nazi - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

Rauff had been a member of Heinrich Himmler's Reichssicherheitshauptamt - the RSHA , at the heart of the Nazi repression machine.

Died a free man in Santiago, Chile in 1984 despite efforts to extradite him.
In effect West Germany at least had a 'don't ask don't tell' attitude post 1945 totehir former SS/Gestapo members and in that I include people who were members of such units as police battalion 101.



Then you have the interview with Oskar Groennig in the Laurence Rees documentry Auschwitz and the Final Solution, who has just been to court but for many years slipped back into German society with little in the way of retribution for his actions. There were very many like him.
 
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In effect West Germany at least had a 'don't ask don't tell' attitude post 1945 totehir former SS/Gestapo members and in that I include people who were members of such units as police battalion 101.



Then you have the interview with Oskar Groennig in the Laurence Rees documentry Auschwitz and the Final Solution, who has just been to court but form many years slipped back into German society with little in the way of retribution for his actions. There were very many like him.
There were loads of people from eastern Europe, who had Nazi connections, especially from Ukraine, who found haven in Canada after the war. Attempts to extradite them to face justice for major war crimes were ignored due to a combination of cold war diplomacy and domestic politics. Israel was quite unhappy with Canada over this, as were a number of eastern European countries. Time and old age has resolved most of that problem however.

If you go through eastern Europe, particularly the former Soviet Union, there are plenty of people and organisations with Nazi connections whose past has been whitewashed as these new countries tried to construct a somewhat more glorious past for themselves than history would justify.

There was a local German Nazi here (southwestern Ontario) whom although I'm not aware of him being accused of war crimes provides for a few amusing anecdotes which I thought I would take the opportunity to relate purely for the sake of entertainment. After arriving here he managed to amass a small fortune in the property market through the creative use of bankruptcy law and various other dubious stratagems. Whenever in his numerous civil court appearances the judge or opposing lawyer would refer to him as a "neo-Nazi" he would get quite upset, insisting that he wasn't a "neo-Nazi", he was a genuine original Nazi and demanded that he be referred to as such if anyone wanted to bring up the subject.

He eventually retired from business to his "estate" outside the city, where he collected Nazi memorabilia and built a "shrine" to his Nazi heroes (I can't recall the details). His "estate" (just a large house on a large property, really) was under the flight path to the local commercial airport, and he had his gardener mow the grass into a giant swastika so that the passengers on the planes landing at or taking off from the airport could see it.

Near the end of his life he found that his children had little interest in carrying on the Nazi tradition, so he tried to adopt someone as his heir who would maintain his Nazi shrine and the memory of his cause. He had little luck with this, and last I heard when he died his children proceeded to fight over the inheritance so they could sell the "estate" off to developers to be broken up into housing developments.
 
Indeed, and some people are going to be seriously upset when it's pointed out the poor quality of many of our troops and commanders.


This points it out nicely.

As did my Grandad, RE North Africa 1941-Tunis victory (with excursions to Greece and Palestine)
 
Interestingly the routing block at the top says it's to Pz Armee Afrika via the German General attached to Italian Comando Supremo in Rome. It probably helped that he was operating in Italian territory or at least in territory they wanted - until the German occupation, Italy and the Italian occupation zones were safe enough that Jews fled into them.
Rommel was one of a number of generals who routinely reported to HQ and took orders from same, then acted completely differently.. ULTRA had an increasing problem with the Orders, not being followed and info reported back being incorrect.

On Rommels Character and everyones excitement about the paperwork. I think its the same as above i.e. accepting an order and even releasing it to command doesn't mean its going to be adhered too. Ultimatly the decision falls on company level what happens.
 

Glad_its_all_over

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Fanbois and apologists have done a really good job of whitewashing the Wehrmacht and, to an extent, the Waffen-SS, since the War. It helps considerably that, with a very few exceptions, atrocities against the Western Allies were infrequent and generally small-scale (although Heer, Luftwaffe and SS all did a bang-up job in inflicting misery on civilian populations in France and Italy in response to maquis or Partisan activity locally).

The truth is that the Wehrmacht generally had a patchy record on atrocity and willing compliance with nuts Nazi racial policies and that, while Heer units generally didn't do the sort of mass-grave filling that the Police and SS units did, they certainly weren't averse to helping out.

The bulk of Germans were all for National Socialism and the restoration of German greatness, at least until the tide decisively turned and that would include the Wehrmacht. There *were* brave individuals willing to violate thie oaths before then, just not terribly many.

If you look at 20 July, even if they'd managed to get the big feller, the piss-poor staff work on the part of the plotters and the failure to secure unequivocal commitments of immediate armed support in and around Berlin mean that they were fucked - the best-case end state for Valkyrie would have been civil war (and, probably, the Russians in Berlin six months earlier).
 
Taranto - The first decisive use of carrier borne torpedo bombers. Such a crushing victory that RN Wardrooms celebrate it as much as Trafalgar to this day. Believed to have given Yamamoto the inspiration for his tactics in December 1941, some 13 months later.

Matapan - The second significant battle against the Italian Navy in the Med , ensured that the threat of seaborne action was limited to small ships.
My point in a nutshell. That said the Italian Navy did score some points
 
But the German invasion of Russia meant that the Afrika Corps was always going to play 2nd fiddle. Had they focused on the Suez and held off on Russia I think they might have done it. But they gambled, overextended and lost it all.
Ah yes that drafted Balkans issue. Actually there’s another way of looking at it. Hitler was reluctantly forced to assist Italy, but a North African campaign had never figured in the plans as that was Benito’s. However going south East for Russia’s oil resrves and concentrating on separating Russia from those, was far more sensible than bothering about Moscow.-why because the concentration on Capitals had failed for Napoleon. But North Africa had oil reserves that could be exploited and that was known about pre war.

Take Eygpt, cut the suez and link up via Syria, more oil. Just to ram the point home, theArabs were very keen to prevent the setting up. Jewish homeland in the Palestinian mandate, that is recorded in Spears’ book” fulfillment of a mission”. So actually the fact that germans lost in North Africa do not make it that much of a side show, in terms of priorities, but if viewed as an extension of the Greek/ Balkan campaign, it’s a very different Kettle of Fish. For an initially small force it absorbed a hell of a lot of our resources.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
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Book Reviewer
Ah yes that drafted Balkans issue. Actually there’s another way of looking at it. Hitler was reluctantly forced to assist Italy, but a North African campaign had never figured in the plans as that was Benito’s. However going south East for Russia’s oil resrves and concentrating on separating Russia from those, was far more sensible than bothering about Moscow.-why because the concentration on Capitals had failed for Napoleon. But North Africa had oil reserves that could be exploited and that was known about pre war.

Take Eygpt, cut the suez and link up via Syria, more oil. Just to ram the point home, theArabs were very keen to prevent the setting up. Jewish homeland in the Palestinian mandate, that is recorded in Spears’ book” fulfillment of a mission”. So actually the fact that germans lost in North Africa do not make it that much of a side show, in terms of priorities, but if viewed as an extension of the Greek/ Balkan campaign, it’s a very different Kettle of Fish. For an initially small force it absorbed a hell of a lot of our resources.
In terms of our resources, the majority of the resupply went to Egypt via cape town. A rather circuitous route to say the least.

As well as Egypt and North Africa, we also fought in and garrisoned what was then Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran. In the first 2 against Vichy French, who did not surrender willingly even when facing Free French forces.

We also fought the Italians in Somalia and Ethiopia.
 
The truth is that the Wehrmacht generally had a patchy record on atrocity and willing compliance with nuts Nazi racial policies and that, while Heer units generally didn't do the sort of mass-grave filling that the Police and SS units did, they certainly weren't averse to helping out.
Manstein?* opposed the various "eliminate the slavs orders" and didn't act on them - He also forbade troops from unofficially helping out / using it as a photo op.

When it comes to the Eastern front it was a cold war convenience to point at the SS and pretend the average German took no part. In reality there was little to pick between them.

Mind you we also tend to forget just how eager Eastern European civ pop was to round up the Jews

*I could have the wrong General/ Marshall
 
In terms of our resources, the majority of the resupply went to Egypt via cape town. A rather circuitous route to say the least.

As well as Egypt and North Africa, we also fought in and garrisoned what was then Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran. In the first 2 against Vichy French, who did not surrender willingly even when facing Free French forces.

We also fought the Italians in Somalia and Ethiopia.
Indeed, as to the latter point we were up against the Eritrean campaign. From late 41 on there was the japanese threat to our resources. Spears covers the aspect of the ME very well indeed and considered the Vichy forces a thorn in our sides. 2-3 weeks was the average delay in having to use the Atlantic routes rather than risk the Med.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Manstein?* opposed the various "eliminate the slavs orders" and didn't act on them - He also forbade troops from unofficially helping out / using it as a photo op.

When it comes to the Eastern front it was a cold war convenience to point at the SS and pretend the average German took no part. In reality there was little to pick between them.

Mind you we also tend to forget just how eager Eastern European civ pop was to round up the Jews

*I could have the wrong General/ Marshall
Some of the Western Europeans were not too slow either!
 

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