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The Myth of Testing

Spot on. It's why the coronavirus may not be a problem for many in the UK either. They don't fit an at risk group, they may have little or no contact with elderly grandparents.

Yet Mr Dude is getting load of grief for being selfish, when we're all really selfish in that we don't give a shit about 1.5 million people who die of TB every year.
That's not why he's getting shit. I know that you and him don't give a shit about other people becoming ill, you've made that abundantly clear. He's getting shit because he openly stated - macho posturing or otherwise - that if he knew that he had COVID-19, he would ignore the rules about self-isolating and happily go to the shops to spread it around.
 
Just because they weren't "taking a knee", giving the "black power salute" or "carrying placards saying Boris is a c**t or Boris out" doesn't mean that they aren't BLM or Antifa! Our next door neighbour, who happens to be black and a wheelchair user, been as nice as pie for the last 4 years that she's lived there (we live in a block of 8 flats), suddenly has become an out and out BLM fanatic, leaving BLM leaflets around the foyer and putting stickers up on the glass door entrance to the block, they do live amongst us without us knowing, she's finally showing her true colours.
BLM are anti white racists, the racist bitch that she is. Most black people I have met are closet racists - some are out and out racists.
 
Are you unclear on how viral infections, mortality and immunity works? Do you know what the purpose of vaccination is?

Once you do, you will comprehend the logic.
I'll continue to try and postpone the date of my exposure until treatments have improved, and hopefully, a vaccine has been found, if it's all right with you.
 
I know that you and him don't give a shit about other people becoming ill, you've made that abundantly clear.

Neither do you, which is why I highlight the fact that 1.5 million people die of TB every year; it's one of the world's biggest life-takers.

It's very hard to have Great Compassion for all sentient beings unless you're a Buddha.

Which I'm not.

It's like your compassion only extends to the proximity of the nation that's geographically closest to you.

I do like your hypocrisy though.
 

Dredd

LE
Hey, these weren't my suggestions, they were from a top epidemiologist from Oxford Uni; Prof Gupta.

I take it you're a Brexiteer? They don't like experts either.

Wrong assumption in the second sentence. But I also understand the reason why Gove said what he did, and he was right - as the current soon-to-be-endemic matter has shown. People are now inured to what experts say. You can thank social media for that.

The point was - those who have their lives to live have to be hobbled by those who are at the end of theirs. That's a great logic to build upon.

The medical profession still has the hang-over from the "protect all life regardless" mentality, while ignoring the "quantity over quality" aspect which should be guiding it. That may sound cold and heartless, but in the end the question must always be - who is paying for this? There is only so much we can do and we need to make sure that we utilise that to optimum efficiency and effectiveness.
 
That's not why he's getting shit. I know that you and him don't give a shit about other people becoming ill, you've made that abundantly clear. He's getting shit because he openly stated - macho posturing or otherwise - that if he knew that he had COVID-19, he would ignore the rules about self-isolating and happily go to the shops to spread it around.
EVERYONE is going to get this - unless they die before they get it, YOU INCLUDED. The sooner you & everyone else gets it the better. That way there's no need to live like a hermit. This is also going to mutate as all viruses do, if you get it just now - you're body will build up some tolerance to a mutated more deadlier strain when the virus evolves.
 
The point was - those who have their lives to live have to be hobbled by those who are at the end of theirs. That's a great logic to build upon.

I agreed with much of your post, but that's very much what appears to be happening. Or to be more accurate, government is choosing to hobble those with much life to live in order to improve the politically sensitive covid death figures.

Here's an example:

 

Dredd

LE
EVERYONE is going to get this - unless they die before they get it, YOU INCLUDED. The sooner you & everyone else gets it the better. That way there's no need to live like a hermit. This is also going to mutate as all viruses do, if you get it just now - you're body will build up some tolerance to a mutated more deadlier strain when the virus evolves.

Actually . . . there is going to be a proportion of the population that will be naturally immune to the infection. As there may be those who are asymptomatic carriers. It is not guaranteed that everyone is going to get it. But of those who do, there is a 98% survival rate. And a period of immunity, duration yet to be determined.

As you know.
 
For clarity, as it could be several years before there is an effective vaccine produced in sufficient quantity to immunise the whole population, you will be content to have these restrictions remain and possibly yo-yo up and down until then?
Aye, what's the alternative, just let it run riot in the community?
 
There is only so much we can do and we need to make sure that we utilise that to optimum efficiency and effectiveness.

Fair point.

We could start with using ovens instead of costly and resource-intensive individual cremations.

Then maybe we could cut out that whole wasteful hospital nonsense just for a few people who - let's face it - are nothing but a burden on the economy anyway.

Perhaps if we collected them up and housed them together in a concentrated manner, they'd be less of a risk to the public and easier to process. Some sort of camp or former Army base would do for a start.

Boris has already said he has a few troops on standby.
 
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EVERYONE is going to get this - unless they die before they get it, YOU INCLUDED. The sooner you & everyone else gets it the better.
Not so. If too many people get it over a short period then medical facilities will be overwhelmed and many more people would die than if you can slow down the infection rate.

Overwhelming medical facilities will also take a greater toll on medical specialists which will have knock-on effects on medical capacity for future needs, be it this or something else.
 

AfricaExpat

Old-Salt
That is at odds with the figures published by PHE. The positivity rate for testing in England is approximately 1.7% at the moment - that is 1.7% of tests are returning positive results. This means that if 1000 people in England are tested at random, then 17 will return positive results, 10 of whom will have the virus if the 0.7% FPR is correct.
Clarity is certainly needed. The figures I have for 9th September show 1.0% for Pillar1 testing and 0.4% for Pillar 2 from Table 1 on this;
 
Not so. If too many people get it over a short period then medical facilities will be overwhelmed and many more people would die than if you can slow down the infection rate.

Overwhelming medical facilities will also take a greater toll on medical specialists which will have knock-on effects on medical capacity for future needs, be it this or something else.
The NHS has had a long time to plan for this now - there's zero excuses anymore. Also I know nurses that work in the main hospital where I live and they are telling me that they are still running out of ppe - wtf! Poor admin and the SNP are in charge of the Scottish NHS - so I will blame them. Also I doubt the medical services will be overrun - how many patients ended up in the Nightingale Hospital - it was empty.
 
The NHS has had a long time to plan for this now - there's zero excuses anymore. Also I know nurses that work in the main hospital where I live and they are telling me that they are still running out of ppe - wtf! Poor admin and the SNP are in charge of the Scottish NHS - so I will blame them. Also I doubt the medical services will be overrun - how many patients ended up in the Nightingale Hospital - it was empty.
How long does it take to train up medical staff? More than a few months I think.
We put lockdown in place and cut down the numbers needing assistance, so we were not overwhelmed. Had we taken your approach, we would have been and could be again, exponential growth being what it is.
 

Dredd

LE
Aye, what's the alternative, just let it run riot in the community?

Ah, but there's the rub.

That could be one way to do it. Allow nature to take it's course. The vast majority of those who catch it (which is not necessarily the vast majority of the population either) will survive, but some may be disabled by it. The advantage is that they are then immune to it - problem is, that may not be for long enough for it not to go around again - and again - and again. That would be an extreme scenario and one that is not really preferable, especially as we are not even clear yet on it is actually transmitted - there is so much we do not know about it. Plus - it may not actually achieve the desired result.

The polar opposite is quarantine - by force - everyone who has current symptoms, and everyone they have been in contact with for a minimum of one month, if not longer. You then have a microcosm of the above, but the eventual death and disability toll is much lower. But again, depending on how adaptive the virus can be, it may not actually achieve the desired result. But you are more likely to do so.

In a totalitarian regime, and to be completely sure, you would euthanize these people now and you can be fairly certain it is now no longer a threat. Which is also unpalatable.

What we have been doing is neither of these, thereby guaranteeing that it will never get close to be controlled.

So if we had to chose the one most likely to allow us to get back to normal - the totalitarian route is the one to go. If you prefer to live in a democracy though, then eventually the first one will win out.

We will still need the vaccine though.
 
Ah, but there's the rub.

That could be one way to do it. Allow nature to take it's course. The vast majority of those who catch it (which is not necessarily the vast majority of the population either) will survive, but some may be disabled by it. The advantage is that they are then immune to it - problem is, that may not be for long enough for it not to go around again - and again - and again. That would be an extreme scenario and one that is not really preferable, especially as we are not even clear yet on it is actually transmitted - there is so much we do not know about it. Plus - it may not actually achieve the desired result.

The polar opposite is quarantine - by force - everyone who has current symptoms, and everyone they have been in contact with for a minimum of one month, if not longer. You then have a microcosm of the above, but the eventual death and disability toll is much lower. But again, depending on how adaptive the virus can be, it may not actually achieve the desired result. But you are more likely to do so.

In a totalitarian regime, and to be completely sure, you would euthanize these people now and you can be fairly certain it is now no longer a threat. Which is also unpalatable.

What we have been doing is neither of these, thereby guaranteeing that it will never get close to be controlled.

So if we had to chose the one most likely to allow us to get back to normal - the totalitarian route is the one to go. If you prefer to live in a democracy though, then eventually the first one will win out.

We will still need the vaccine though.
Yep, vaccine is key. I'd suggest people best start getting used to on the bus off the bus, rollout of a vaccine ( if there ever is one ) will be a logistical nightmare.
 
F'k me...I should have posted about an outbreak of crayonitus.

Thank you to the three of you who tried to keep it on track.

I am impressed by some members dedication. Willing, every six months, to have a 50% chance of dying for the economy.
 

crow_bag

Old-Salt
F'k me...I should have posted about an outbreak of crayonitus.

Thank you to the three of you who tried to keep it on track.

I am impressed by some members dedication. Willing, every six months, to have a 50% chance of dying for the economy.

Where does this "50% chance of dying for the economy" come from?



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Where does this "50% chance of dying for the economy" come from?



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Earlier I pointed out that letting CV19 run rampant was a bad idea, as you can be reinfected every six months or so.
Add to the mention that if memory serves, there's a 46% of getting serious, and lethal, heart problems each time you are infected.

Edit:
Looked it up. 46% of youths and athletes that have had cv19 have developed Myocarditis. Some of these were not showing symptoms.
 
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