The MPs who sent our men to war!

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by muhandis89, Jun 6, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Bad week for me.
    Even I cannot accept how low the Elected Rats have sunk.
  2. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    What does the MOD make of these fine speeches by elected officials in the House, some of whom set the budgets that lead directly to the deaths of some of these brave men and women?

    It's all very well for fcuk-all MPs to turn up to the House to discuss this tragedy (because they've been caught with their hands in the till), but all these high and mighty words of disgust, when it is from Parliaments ranks that the Chancellor, nay PM is drawn - the very same who has denied the money to the Armed forces where they need it most rankles; it does more than that, it makes me fcuking furious!
  3. Cheers muhandis89 for posting this.

    Well done Christopher Booker. His last paragraph is sadly very accurate.

    The governments of both Blair and Brown have let our armed forces terribly. The "apathy" of MP's in relation to current ops is a disgrace.

    So, less then a dozen sit to hear information on current ops. Compare to the packed house two weeks ago, when MP's expenses are being debated. No apathy there then. How can this be?
  4. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    This debate was carried out on Thursday, when the media was focused on polling day.
    It's one thing to focus on mp's expenses, and give them all a slating for feathering their own nests. On the strength of this turnout [about normal, from what I can gather] It's just small change.
    Anne Winterton MP, at least had an inkling of the pish poor performance of the vehicles procurrred for Our Troops

    Apart from Booker, there doesn't seem to be anyone, MP's or media, who are actually questioning the quality of vehicles.
    I got out in 1999, I've never been to Afghanistan,but I understand the concepts of 'Situational awareness, mobility and having an off road capability.
    If Snatch, Wimik,Vikings, Jackels and Vectors are uparmoured, surely, that degrades their off road performance by giving them a high centre of gravity. Is there something wrong with buying a vehicle that has been designed from the wheels up to withstand IED's and minestrikes, and then takes a few hours in the workshop to replace axles and suspension units, instead of a vehicle taking a mine strike, and then being cannabalised for spares.
    Why are the quality newspapers,[Even The Forces Favorite] not reporting on this? Are the majority of the population so dumbed down, that they would rather discuss who is in BB101, than rather what is best for Our Young Lads.
    I have a vested interest in this. My Nephew is part way through joining The Paras.
    Last year, Our small town was brought to a standstill when one of our young lads was repatriated after an incident in a Wimik. I've not been for a curry since.
    It's all very well that mp's claim their expenses,as long as they are doing their job. Obviously on this occasion they had better things to do. Thank God they were caught on a bad day, it might embaress them otherwise.


    While I'm here, how did The Allies dominate the skies 65 years ago, with TYpoons and Hurricanes{cheapper than a fast jet]. Is that not possible nowadays, I don't knw if it feaisble
  5. Unfortunately, Brit Joe Public is populated by millions of cretins who couldn't give a flying feck about its Armed Forces. From a point above; Dopey Joe is more concerned about getting shoite faced at the weekend and watching BB.

    People were back in Guz, in uniform, this week and mingling with Dopey Joe around Plymouth. They may as well have been invisible. The lads and lasses are probably all too aware that UK doesn't give a toss about them. That's left to their own friends/families and veterans.

    UK, you're a shower of shit. End of.
  6. I am still amazed at the focus of these sort of debates as a awhole. They always tend to say the MOD should have been run more efficiently and procurement should have had certain focuses in the run up etc etc etc...

    The fact is we need much more money. Full stop. The second we went to war we should have boosted the budget by atleast 20bn. Sounds an awful lot but when you consider how much the government is willing to pump into just about anything else it doesn't seem that outlandish, and should be expected really considering we've been running our armed forces on the cheap for too long anyway.
    Our lads shouldn't have been in the obscene situation where they found their own units being disbanded, or 'streamlined' whilst they were in the middle of tours. Our larger scale projects such as the T45 have suffered because the measely defence budget has had to have large parts reallocated instead of expanding to meet demand.

    Sadly, this will ever be the case if there aren't votes to be won. Civilians, however sympathetic, aren't going to support a cause they don't know much about. All that gets to the public shpere is when a large scale project is dropped and when new vehicles get to the conflict zones. The heads of the respective forces have it out with eachother, each staking claims to the tiny budget we have now rather than demanding more money overall. This is entirely appropriate given that soldiers and servicemen should not be embroiled in politics... Though it is the politico's duty to ensure the deal is honoured and provide properly.

    Unfortunately, the current Government can't see what we need money to spend on since we aren't innundated with diversity experts or blue sky thinking execs. It's doing irreparable to this nation's security is the bottom line. And they should be utterly ashamed. Ofcourse, we can't be too harsh on the lovely politicians since making them feel bad might make one of them top themselves. We should be sensetive to this while our squaddies, who unlike the politicians, get on with their jobs very well, and have a sense of duty, continue to come home in boxes on an almsot daily basis.

    The Government has ruined the Union, the Economy, The Constitution and our Armed Forces. What else are they going to drag down with them before they totally implode?

    And another thing....
  7. More to the point, is there anything left for them to fcuk-up?
  8. You forgot to mention the destruction of the NHS;
    The failed education system;
    The appalling state of our transport infrastructure;
    The loss of respect from abroad;
    The ignoring of Parliament;
    Imposition of a 'surveillance society';
    The rise of 'political police' and 'political civil service';
    The wholesale distribution of life peerages;
    Bowing and scraping to every diktat and whim of the faceless, unelected and unaccountable apparatchiks of the European Soviet Union;
    The breaking of Election Manifesto promises;
    The re-employment of disgraced former ministers.
    The above just for starters.

    In answer to your question, thus far only Her Majesty has been spared the 'modernisation of Bliar'. However, in place of a direct attack she and her Household are being starved of the funds required to maintain adequately and appropriately her peerless reign. Same tactic as 'Stalin' Brown used to destroy her Armed Forces.

    PS: Why is 'Stalin' so often referred to as 'brilliant'. I think he is no more than a thick, blinkered, bigoted, socially and politically inept, economically and psychologically badly flawed oaf.
  9. HairyArse2's comment re vehicles choices. Winterton and Booker are extensively quoted in the Ministry of Defeat book and this topic is - to me who wasn't there - is very well covered. Every Snatch death and serious injury is looked at together with the way that alternatives were chosen. There is the sale of 31s at Poundstretcher rates bought by a smaller coalition force and sent to Iraq where they did sterling service for their new masters. The question of off the shelf purchases is also covered at length.
    The timing of the announcement of an Iraq Inquiry strikes me as opportunism of the highest order. Just as Blair tossed the bone of Saville and Bloody Sunday to those making a lot of noise, so Brown has done with the Iraq saga. The new inquiry will doubtless cost as much by the time all allowances and expenses have been claimed and will solve just as much as will Saville's work - SFA.
  10. Sadly, the only place to win this argument , is in court. I would urge every bereaved soldier's family, who lost a son or daughter, in a thin-skinned landrover to take the MoD to court for negligence.

    Herc and Nimrod cases are sewn up. Time to press with the landrover deaths.

    Sorry to post the above, but court room is the only place MoD/Govt listens.

    And as for MPs, you can forget them, they along with the defence committee are weak and ineffective.
  11. Two points.

    Firstly, the politician's knack for always implying that it is someone else's fault means that they blame "the MOD" for these shortcomings. What they fail to realise is that the MOD is a combined Ministry of State and Strategic Headquarters. Consequently a politician IS the head of the MOD and he can direct how the MOD is organised and where it should be focusing. Unfortunately, the revolving-door nature of cabinet postings being handed out as rewards for loyalty to the Stalinist centre means that we get a stream of second-rate politicians (third-rate human-beings) who would struggle to understand their jobs if they were left in place for some time. For 18 months, they will be spending all their time trying to understand the gravity of their new role, let alone doing anything useful. We are not blameless, the military is the bit that makes recommendations to Ministers, but Ministers are the ones who claim that they have power because they have 'a mandate from the people' (patronising scum) and if they want to be in charge they need to understand that that also makes them responsible.

    Secondly, only eleven turned up because of the p*ss-poor timing of the debate. I wonder why not one of them bothered to point out to the alleged-speaker that this was massively inappropriate and arranged for the debate to be re-scheduled? However, the reason none of them is interested is because they recognise that we are currently labouring under an elected dictatorship. The debates in the House make no difference whatsoever. The Labour Party has a resounding majority thanks to their 24% of the popular vote and the way that constituencies have been gerrymandered, and it has whipped its MPs into total submission - any rebellion to the whip ends the career of a Labour Backbencher (because the Party controls the candidates list and can deselect them at the next election). Disobedience is not an option. Consequently, Comrade Brown has guaranteed himself 100% loyalty from his MPs which makes every vote a foregone conclusion - that may EXPLAIN their behaviour (on both sides) but it does not EXCUSE their behaviour. Cameron is promising a new democracy - I only hope that he follows this through and that power does not corrupt.
  12. One paragraph says it all

  13. A WMIK will stop an EFP.

    If it's a small one.
  14. Wah? 8O