The most modern and effective bolt action service rifle ever?

Your favourite bolt action service rifle and please explain why

  • Mas Mlle 1936

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Madsen M47

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M1944 (Russian)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    60
Sorry although you can still shoot, plenty of disabled shooters out there, admittedly pairs F&M isn't exactly DDA compliant but there are even options for blind shooters which some able bodied shooters should possibly stick to!
How does that work, do you have a coach behind them to tell them when they are on target or is there some electronic gismo used?
I voted for the No4 as it is the only one on your list I have fired (when I was in the ATC), however to be fair at the time I would of creamed my pants firing any rifle.
Quick question If I may, In books, conversations and documentaries I have never come across an instance where pre loaded magazines for the .303 were used or in fact anyone being issued with a second empty magazine. Do any of the sme know of any such use and was changing the magazine any faster than using stripper clips?
 
Quick question If I may, In books, conversations and documentaries I have never come across an instance where pre loaded magazines for the .303 were used or in fact anyone being issued with a second empty magazine. Do any of the sme know of any such use and was changing the magazine any faster than using stripper clips?
Aside for some very small use of 20-round SMLE mags, mostly in trials, and very early in the Lee-Metford's career, spare magazines were never issued.

As for which is faster, stripper clips are faster by far (vid to follow) for the simple reason that you don't have to stow anything - whip 'em out, whap 'em in and forget about them. Also, a mag is less likely to be damaged if it remains on the rifle at all times except for cleaning.
 
My thoughts exactly.
I only fired it in .22 in training, but my first round went directly in the bull and had a 'missed' called, the next round went through the hole, same call, (Where are you now Sgt Church?).
 
Slightly outside the date range, but the FR8 is handy and quite modern. If they had a detachable mag, they'd be a serious contender.

Or do they count under the 'Spanish Mauser'?
 
Slightly outside the date range, but the FR8 is handy and quite modern. If they had a detachable mag, they'd be a serious contender.

Or do they count under the 'Spanish Mauser'?
What is it with sticky-out bolt handles?!?

FFS there is absolutely no excuse for one after about 1900. None at all.
 
I often wonder at the cousins fascination with collecting them. Mental illness perhaps
Price, a Arsenal refurbished Mosin can go for less than $200 bucks today.

During the late 1980's early 90's importation you had deals like the
Rifle
spam can of ammo
sling
bayonet
cleaning kit
Ammo pouches
for about $120

Also some collectors go for the Finnish versions, like Civil guard m/28's
 
Aside for some very small use of 20-round SMLE mags, mostly in trials, and very early in the Lee-Metford's career, spare magazines were never issued.

As for which is faster, stripper clips are faster by far (vid to follow) for the simple reason that you don't have to stow anything - whip 'em out, whap 'em in and forget about them. Also, a mag is less likely to be damaged if it remains on the rifle at all times except for cleaning.
Thanks for the answer, I will look out for your video, all the ones I've seen so far have been pretty informative.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
I am reminded from a seperate threat of the No.8. Reliable, in service and therefore a service rifle, simple, able to be used by a broad variety of shapes and sizes and hard to improve on even today.
 
If I recall correctly, all of the Finnish Moisin/Nagant rifles were rebuilds, repairs, or modifications of imported rifles. They didn't build any actions themselves.

As for why the Russians adopted that rifle instead of a better one, there were undoubtedly many reasons but one major reason was probably that it could be built to loose tolerances on low tech/low cost manufacturing equipment in state arsenals.

As for why the Americans allegedly like them, some like them and some don't. Some like them because as @TamH70 said, very large numbers were imported some years ago along with surplus ammunition. That means they were readily available at low cost and in many cases were the first rifle that many Americans had beyond a 22, so it's what they are used to (other than an AR-15).

What is more, there are or were a lot of American built Moisin-Nagants on the US market. During WWI the Russians contracted American companies to build rifles for them, and those companies were left holding the bag with large numbers of unsold rifles when the revolution came. The US government bought the stocks of rifles to bail out the manufacturers, and some of those eventually ended up on the US surplus market. Whether they are any better built than the Russian made ones is something that I don't know, but most of them very likely didn't see as hard of a life between then and now.

There are also quite a few Americans who are fans of Japanese "Arisakas". Again, a lot of them ended up on the US market at one point and so were familiar to them.
I got my first Mosin 38 from a Killeen Pawn shop in 1983. It had capture paperwork from 1st cav division 1965 with it. Finish was non existent on the wood and metal was brown but not pitted. I re did the wood and used kerosene to lift the surface rust using a piece of wood also. I got it for $25 and rapidly traded it to another guy's dad who was a korea vet because the ONLY ammo at the time was S&B at over $25 bucks for 20 rounds.

Arisakas are a personal favorite of mine IF they still have the imperial chrysanthemum on them. 2 friends just restored the M44 Cavalry carbine versions after a year long hunt for parts. Apparently each factory used different hardware for bayonets, catches, bands.
 
Owright Grandpa, I’m asking genuine questions through lack of knowledge. It’s an interesting thread, even for those of us that can no longer shoot.
What do you mean can no longer shoot?
If you can get what's left of yer arrse in to the back of my truck, you can come shooting with me, and shoot things from the prone position out of the back of it.
 
The US expected to arm many hundreds of thousands of its troops with the Pederson device, that and the BAR would have provided massed automatic fire to suppress the enemy. The Pederson device only fitted to the 03 Springfield and required some serious work which is possibly why so many US troops used the M1917. It was a simple armourers job, it required factory machining to make magazine housings.
Pedersen devices were made and tested for the US M1917 (As the Mark II) and for the Mosin, but the war ended before they could be mass produced

a 1903 needed an empty case ejection slot cut into the left side of the receiver. Those rifle made as such were marked M1903 Mark 1, and for decades after the war troops who sometimes were issued them wondered why their rifle had the cutout as most people didn't know of the pedersen.


By the way the US Army Signal Corps used Winchester 94's in the pacific northwest to guard the spruce trees used to make aircraft at the time. they were stamped with the Ordnance cartouche. Also the French used some Winchester self loaders for NCO's in .351

11th US Railway Engineers attached to the British Army still had the Krag when they landed in France
 
Re. the quality of Mosins, some hundreds of thousands were US made. Many of those in circulation in the US are of US manufacture so is the quality issue more an issue of design tolerances than manufacture? Or is it particularly prone to faults?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator

ugly

LE
Moderator
Re. the quality of Mosins, some hundreds of thousands were US made. Many of those in circulation in the US are of US manufacture so is the quality issue more an issue of design tolerances than manufacture? Or is it particularly prone to faults?
If I had to have one I would rather have a Westinghouse than a Russian built one
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Re. the quality of Mosins, some hundreds of thousands were US made. Many of those in circulation in the US are of US manufacture so is the quality issue more an issue of design tolerances than manufacture? Or is it particularly prone to faults?
There is very little that wasn't shipped which passed the inspectors. Anything shipped may have been refurbished by Ivan the 12 year old using a Bastard file and a 2 pound lump hammer! Worst case scenario. Most US owned guns are imports, simple reason is most were made in Soviet Union and even those shipped would at some point be surplussed. Even US rifles that were shipped are being surplussed, the only in shipped ones worth touching should have US Govt markings as these would have passed inspection at some point. The Imperial Russian Inspectors rejected a huge % of Westinghouse production. This isn't a slur on Westinghouse but possibly job creation for the Russians.
The story of the rifle as with many is itself fascinating, far more so than the subject itself which is a rubbish piece of junk
 
a lot of ARRSE'rs voting No 4 who weren't at Sword Beach, the Imjin, Tumbledown, or any other place where the targets shot back
...for which 10 rounds, good sights and a fast bolt might have been better than, say, something with 5 rounds, bad sights and a bolt you had to beat open with your boot.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The thing is Goldbricker, the lads shooting SLRs when I was in were trained usually on No4s in the cadets as teenagers. Most (myself included) have reasonably fond memories of the Lee Enfield, it was also a lot less to clean than anything that replaced it!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Slightly outside the date range, but the FR8 is handy and quite modern. If they had a detachable mag, they'd be a serious contender.

Or do they count under the 'Spanish Mauser'?
Its really just a later rebarrelling and modification of the M43, its date and cartridge exclude it from the table and I have handled a few but frankly they are overpriced.
 
Its really just a later rebarrelling and modification of the M43, its date and cartridge exclude it from the table and I have handled a few but frankly they are overpriced.
What are they going for in the UK?
 
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