The most modern and effective bolt action service rifle ever?

Your favourite bolt action service rifle and please explain why

  • Mas Mlle 1936

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Madsen M47

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M1944 (Russian)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    60
#81
What was the sniper rifle used by the Finnish snipers to kill hordes of Russians? That seemed to do the job.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#82
What was the sniper rifle used by the Finnish snipers to kill hordes of Russians? That seemed to do the job.
Often it wasn't a rifle or even a sniping rifle, the Finnish ace often used a 9mm Suomi smg the KP31. He did have and used the locally produced copy of the Russian M1890 known as the M/28-30 rifle but it was often just with iron sights.
 
#83
I often wonder at the cousins fascination with collecting them. Mental illness perhaps
Mosins used to be dirt cheap, as was the surplus ammunition used to feed them, which our Cousins used to buy big cans of. Things have changed a bit due to sanctions and other such events.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#84
Mosins used to be dirt cheap, as was the surplus ammunition used to feed them, which our Cousins used to buy big cans of. Things have changed a bit due to sanctions and other such events.
But to turn it into a worship status is indeed strange. I know some people collect them because they are cheap but its a disease. Collecting Lee Enfields is not of course, its homage paying!
 
#85
But to turn it into a worship status is indeed strange. I know some people collect them because they are cheap but its a disease. Collecting Lee Enfields is not of course, its homage paying!
I love hearing the opinions of people who have only shot rifles sitting at a bench loading the mag round by round and never firing more than a couple of rounds a minute at tin cans and paper plates, dropping the rifle down to cycle it in a leisurely fashion. They're the best. Those people have the most valid opinions on the relevant qualities of various battle rifles.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#86
I love hearing the opinions of people who have only shot rifles sitting at a bench loading the mag round by round and never firing more than a couple of rounds a minute at tin cans and paper plates, dropping the rifle down to cycle it in a leisurely fashion. They're the best. Those people have the most valid opinions on the relevant qualities of various battle rifles.
Cousins, the keyboard warrior sort?
 
#87
That all folks seem to be capable of where I am...sitting at a bench, couple of rounds an hour and usually at some unauthorised target or a C50 with a white patch over the X ???

They think you are strange if you go prone and shoot from the sling.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#88
I do all of my load testing sat at a bench, its a disability issue. I do check my groups from other positions however a lot of my shooting is high seat or standing supported!
 
#89
Often it wasn't a rifle or even a sniping rifle, the Finnish ace often used a 9mm Suomi smg the KP31. He did have and used the locally produced copy of the Russian M1890 known as the M/28-30 rifle but it was often just with iron sights.
If I recall correctly, all of the Finnish Moisin/Nagant rifles were rebuilds, repairs, or modifications of imported rifles. They didn't build any actions themselves.

As for why the Russians adopted that rifle instead of a better one, there were undoubtedly many reasons but one major reason was probably that it could be built to loose tolerances on low tech/low cost manufacturing equipment in state arsenals.

As for why the Americans allegedly like them, some like them and some don't. Some like them because as @TamH70 said, very large numbers were imported some years ago along with surplus ammunition. That means they were readily available at low cost and in many cases were the first rifle that many Americans had beyond a 22, so it's what they are used to (other than an AR-15).

What is more, there are or were a lot of American built Moisin-Nagants on the US market. During WWI the Russians contracted American companies to build rifles for them, and those companies were left holding the bag with large numbers of unsold rifles when the revolution came. The US government bought the stocks of rifles to bail out the manufacturers, and some of those eventually ended up on the US surplus market. Whether they are any better built than the Russian made ones is something that I don't know, but most of them very likely didn't see as hard of a life between then and now.

There are also quite a few Americans who are fans of Japanese "Arisakas". Again, a lot of them ended up on the US market at one point and so were familiar to them.
 
#90
my grandfather said that while they were in Archangel he and the lads were issued temporarily with the "long-rifle" as he called it (moisin nagant /mauser ?? which they preferred over the enfield.
Now then, the British bought Arisakas and ammo during Ww1 and after the war armed the white Russians with them. I wonder.....
3955087553_24cac4c229.jpg
 
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#91
I do all of my load testing sat at a bench, its a disability issue. I do check my groups from other positions however a lot of my shooting is high seat or standing supported!

If I'm killing, it's supported 100%.

If I'm load testing it's 50/50.

I'm talking about able bodied shooters who never do anything but shoot supported from a bench with military rifles.

It's 90% of the club who do that.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#92
Now then, the British bought Arisakas and ammo during Ww1 and after the war armed the white Russians with them. I wonder.....
We needed rifles in a rush during WW1, Salvage and dispersal factories couldn't keep up with demand so the Navy was stripped bare and then the training units. Japan was our Ally and supplied many hundreds of thousands of Arisaka rifles to the point where we were making ammunition here and in French factories. The shortage ended by 1916 despite the ineffective supply of the P14 from the USA factories and the rifles and ammunition were sold to the Russians and shipped along with our gold to secure payment via Archangel.
The Russians also used Winchester 1895 rifles in 7.62 x 54R and the French also armed its despatch riders and wagon drivers with Winchester rifles in .30-30. These ended up in Belgian Congo post WW2 via a Belgian arms dealer supplying them to colonial police and mine security guards.
The P14s on arrival ended up being stored in the main apart from a selected batch of Winchester built models which became the 1918 standard sniping rifle. You have to remember that we didn't expect the Germans to fold in 1918, in fact we expected to have to launch a massive armoured attack in Spring 1919 with a Massive American army picking up the slack. The Americans themselves were armed in the main with M1917 rifles, a .30-06 build of the P14 which was better suited to a rimless cartridge as the original was a .276 rimless.
How things go around.
The US expected to arm many hundreds of thousands of its troops with the Pederson device, that and the BAR would have provided massed automatic fire to suppress the enemy. The Pederson device only fitted to the 03 Springfield and required some serious work which is possibly why so many US troops used the M1917. It was a simple armourers job, it required factory machining to make magazine housings.
 
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ugly

LE
Moderator
#93
Now then, the British bought Arisakas and ammo during Ww1 and after the war armed the white Russians with them. I wonder.....
View attachment 332192
You should read Tony Edwards books on British secondary small arms in WW1, they are very good. All of the rivet counting laid out, factory production numbers, ammunition contractors and any markings.
 
#94
I love hearing the opinions of people who have only shot rifles sitting at a bench loading the mag round by round and never firing more than a couple of rounds a minute at tin cans and paper plates, dropping the rifle down to cycle it in a leisurely fashion. They're the best. Those people have the most valid opinions on the relevant qualities of various battle rifles.
Are you not restricted to that type of shooting practice in the UK because of regulation? I know you can stalk and hunt in Scotland, but chances are you won’t even get to fire a single round.
 
#95
We needed rifles in a rush during WW1, Salvage and dispersal factories couldn't keep up with demand so the Navy was stripped bare and then the training units. Japan was our Ally and supplied many hundreds of thousands of Arisaka rifles to the point where we were making ammunition here and in French factories. The shortage ended by 1916 despite the ineffective supply of the P14 from the USA factories and the rifles and ammunition were sold to the Russians and shipped along with our gold to secure payment via Archangel. (...)
Lee Enfield production had caught up enough that by 1916 there were enough available to replace the Ross as well.
 
#96
Are you not restricted to that type of shooting practice in the UK because of regulation? I know you can stalk and hunt in Scotland, but chances are you won’t even get to fire a single round.
No.. people still do practical shooting in UK.. no pistols obviously, but you can still use rifles and carbines. Perfectly safe if properly managed..
 
#97
Mosins used to be dirt cheap, as was the surplus ammunition used to feed them, which our Cousins used to buy big cans of. Things have changed a bit due to sanctions and other such events.
The Holy Grail are Finnish M39's, i.e.heavily reworked and fettled Mosins.

More basic Mosins now have "optimistic" prices attached for anything half decent and the rest can be pretty agricultural specimens.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#98
Are you not restricted to that type of shooting practice in the UK because of regulation? I know you can stalk and hunt in Scotland, but chances are you won’t even get to fire a single round.
Pish, you can stalk anywhere you have permission and sufficient insurance to shoot. I have had days stalking where I have packed up early as I could only fit 8 deerin the car and other days when up in Scotland the bag was in the 20's. There are quiet days, lots of them but don't imagine every trip is a dry hole. I see deer just about every day on the farm, I don't shoot them all because I want them to continue breeding. Foxes on the other hand don't get that level of discretion and as such are thinner on the ground!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#99
Lee Enfield production had caught up enough that by 1916 there were enough available to replace the Ross as well.
The Ross ended up going to the Navy when replaced, the Navy really lucked out! Quite a few were swapped with Indian Army units to release more Rifle No1 into operational theatres. This is why you sometimes see Ross Rifles with odd painted numbers on the butts!
 
Are you not restricted to that type of shooting practice in the UK because of regulation? I know you can stalk and hunt in Scotland, but chances are you won’t even get to fire a single round.
I am always amazed at your deep and profound knowledge of shooting, rifles and so on. You never disappoint.
 
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