The most modern and effective bolt action service rifle ever?

Your favourite bolt action service rifle and please explain why

  • Mas Mlle 1936

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Madsen M47

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M43 Spanish Mauser

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M1944 (Russian)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    60
#22
The Madsen has the bolt handle in vastly the wrong place, and it has open sights.

Anything with a sticky-out bolt handle is just beyond the pale cos it's super slow and blocks the sights. Plus M44 Mosins are... I love them very much as range toys, but when you've had a charger just utterly fail to feed entirely and then when you do get them in it rimjams the first round cos the interruptor...erm.... doesn't, and then refuses to extract reasonably cos it's got ever so slightly warm so you're beating it open with the ball of your hand, you'd have to be a gamer to think it's a sensible battle rifle.

The only 3 on that list that are *really* any good are the No.4, K31 and MAS-36, and the K31 loses out for having open sights and getting the 6th round out the charger and into the mag is a complete PITA, the MAS-36 I love but the rear apeture is too small (I see no need for a safety catch, tbh, but not self-ejecting clips costs you about a second on your reloads and yes I have quantified it but not yet finished the vid, and 10-rounds in a L-E is a mahoosive bonus).

This one is a no-brainer.

No.4, then MAS-36, then K31. The rest are best as drain covers.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#23
I can't believe you missed the carcano. Good enough for killing presidents.
Allegedly! Still a crap rifle though! The Italians made the same mistake as the Japanese, not just being on the wrong side but starting a war midway through rearming is never going to end well. The Japanese had something like 4 different SAA cartridges, the Eyties two or maybe even three. Not good.
 
#24
Why the mauser 43 ? What makes it different from the standard K98?
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#25
Allegedly! Still a crap rifle though! The Italians made the same mistake as the Japanese, not just being on the wrong side but starting a war midway through rearming is never going to end well. The Japanese had something like 4 different SAA cartridges, the Eyties two or maybe even three. Not good.
Excellent examples. Take 1 crap rifle and mate it with well trained, motivated infantry and you get a Co-prosperity Sphere. Take a similar crap rifle and mate it with inadequate motivation and poor fighting skills and you get invaded, surrender, invaded again.
 
#26
Goldbricker has already referred to it, why no Mauser K98 on the list? Don’t you rate it?
Why should you rate it? The Germans didn't.

It's perfectly capable, but the sights are "ok for 1900 (despite being adopted in 1936)", accuracy is OK for a conscript boom stick, it's not particularly fast, it's not particularly cheap, get a sticky case and you'll be beating it open with a block of wood, and with the ammo they issued in WW2 it's a bit of a mule.
 
#27
Why the mauser 43 ? What makes it different from the standard K98?
Moah Handguard! Which is much better.

But then a sticky-out bolt handle. Which is crapper. Much crapper. Mucho crappo / Über scheiß.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#28
Why the mauser 43 ? What makes it different from the standard K98?
43, the Spanish one, less fiddly version of the Mauser in a shorter rifle. The Mauser design was well out of date by 1939, the Germans needed rifles otherwise they probably would have not bothered with all of the captured mauser style rifles in the occupied countries. If you have to have a Mauser I'd opt for a Spanish or Swedish one.
 
#29
Saw a Spanish Mauser made at the La Coruna arsenal, dated 1957. The bore was drilled off centre and the owner said that firing a string walked the rounds across the target as the barrel heated up. OK if you didn't need to fire more than three rounds.
 
#30
43, the Spanish one, less fiddly version of the Mauser in a shorter rifle. The Mauser design was well out of date by 1939, the Germans needed rifles otherwise they probably would have not bothered with all of the captured mauser style rifles in the occupied countries. If you have to have a Mauser I'd opt for a Spanish or Swedish one.
The ONLY military Mauser rifle that's any good by the outbreak of WW2 is the Swedish M38. The sights are OK, it's a short rifle, and has a turned-down bolt handle.


But it still has open sights :p
 
#31
Saw a Spanish Mauser made at the La Coruna arsenal, dated 1957. The bore was drilled off centre and the owner said that firing a string walked the rounds across the target as the barrel heated up. OK if you didn't need to fire more than three rounds.
Yeah, that'll happen if the bore's massively off-center.

Damn coefficient of thermal expansion. How very dare it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#33
The Madsen has the bolt handle in vastly the wrong place, and it has open sights.
In my opinion the real fault with the Madsen is the split bridge, its very 1900 Mannlicher and doesn't lend itself to mounting scopes well. I picked it because it was the last real effort at a new service rifle that used a bolt action. I have three Portugese Mauser Viguero rifles, one in 6.5 x 58 and two of the later conversions to 8mm mauser. They are beautifully made, the 6.5 was a lovely cartridge and if they weren't split bridge would make lovely conversions for sporting rifles. The mag release is a nifty button inside the front of the trigger guard and everything is made really well. The bolt can be difficult to strip but not impossible.
The good points (forgetting the caliber) are the stock design (more than a nod to a good sporting design there) with a hefty recoil pad.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#34
Saw a Spanish Mauser made at the La Coruna arsenal, dated 1957. The bore was drilled off centre and the owner said that firing a string walked the rounds across the target as the barrel heated up. OK if you didn't need to fire more than three rounds.
Sounds like it was made just before Siesta. I suspect it might have been a rebore of the earlier 7mm to maybe 8mm. Who knows?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#35
But it still has open sights :p
I rather like open sights, it took me a while to get the sweet spot on the MAS 36 but when I did it really hurt me.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#36
I prefer the Enfield bolt cycling for more rapid fire and frankly seems 'easier' but that's probably to do with familiarity
Oddly enough with practice the MAS bolt closes easier using the base of your thumb and the open fingers then pat the bolt handle down placing your finger on the trigger. Lots and really lots went into the MAS bolt and trigger layout, they wanted to avoid the jerkiness that the Berthiers and Lebels had, they could have stayed with all of their war reparation Mausers but frankly they knew they were shit and the MAS 36 was an intermediate step to get the cartridge into general service. The rifle takes some getting used to but once familiar it is rather a handy little rifle and only just heavy enough for the cartridge!
 
#37
I`ve got a MAS 36 (looking for some stripper clips) , have yet to fire it but from what I read they dont compare with Lee Enfields .
 
#38
Like many my main experience is with the Lee-Enfield family of Rifles. The M44, if it's like the 1938 carbine then I don't rate it highly, bolt is clunky and charger loading is quite poor in comparison.
The MAS36 is perhaps the ugliest creation but I've seen it demonstrated as a thoroughly workmanlike design. Looks aren't everything!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#39
I`ve got a MAS 36 (looking for some stripper clips) , have yet to fire it but from what I read they dont compare with Lee Enfields .
I'm still looking for those chargers, any Swedish Mauser ones will fit. There are some tricks to shooing it accurately so let me know when you want to have a go and I'll be glad to help.
 
#40
Oddly enough with practice the MAS bolt closes easier using the base of your thumb and the open fingers then pat the bolt handle down placing your finger on the trigger. Lots and really lots went into the MAS bolt and trigger layout, they wanted to avoid the jerkiness that the Berthiers and Lebels had, they could have stayed with all of their war reparation Mausers but frankly they knew they were shit and the MAS 36 was an intermediate step to get the cartridge into general service. The rifle takes some getting used to but once familiar it is rather a handy little rifle and only just heavy enough for the cartridge!
Sorry, it's French.

I could mention 10 round detachable mags, safety catches, my own familiarity with Enfield's etc etc. But the bottom line is, it's French :)
 

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