The MoDs £700 million efficiency savings

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by meridian, Mar 24, 2010.

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  1. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    The MoD has announced it is to make £700 million in efficiency savings

    Are these achievable or just pure fantasy that will be demonstrated with the usual smoke and mirrors exercise of double counting, triple announcing and simply making things up?
  2. Well some idiot will say that more military can cover for civilian security - especially since who needs disembarkation leave? Or any leave in fact? Or time to have the lunch of £30 mediocre cottage pie because more rake off is taken from the PAYD contractors for the pleasures of their getting the contract.

    The rest of it I am willing to bet wont happen because the toes being stepped on are the ones they play golf with on Wednesday afternoons.
  3. msr

    msr LE

    Smoke and mirrors.

  4. Suggest you read the various National Audit Office reports on claimed "Efficiency Savings" in public spending

    Plenty to choose from and a common theme soon emerges.

  5. Ok, how are they going to make these savings, that is the easiest question:

    1 - £550 million savings through Defence Estates, this sounds like a sell off or PFI to me, are Annington going to get another juicy amount of MoD property to rip us off with over the next 30 years?

    2 - How can you save money by spending £130 million replacing legacy IT equipment, you've just spent £130 million replacing like for like, unless these are going to be great new time and cost saving systems, you know like DII and all the others.

    3 - £30 million saved by reducing consultants, yes that's good, but how much more is going to be spent through contracts with external companies, or getting partnerships in place, instead of the MoD paying consultants you get prime contractors doing it, so in effect it goes off balance sheet, i'd say we spend a lot more now on consultants than before, but it's not directly contracted by the MoD anymore, but by second or third parties.

    4 - More redundancies, the MoD have got rid of 40,000 since 1997, another 8,000 are earmarked for it as well, the MoD has never been busier, but is reducing in size each year, leaving gaps that private industry are filling up, so we save a few quid on making some MoD band D's redundant, then replace it with contracts to companies who then hire people on more money to do the same work.

    Overall, i think nothing is firm savings, it's all smoke and mirrors as usual, we can all write down ways of saving money, by just shifting it around, if i do a balance transfer from one credit card to another i'm not better off, i've just hidden the debt a little better. What is needed is a real SDR by people in the right places, let the guys from the bottom all the way to the top speak their minds and come up with real savings that can be achieved without affecting support to operations, why do we continually allow consultations and people well out of the loop to shape the MoD when the best people to do it are in the MoD and doing the job.
  6. On the savings from CS reductions, what concerns me is the idea that putting mil in place to do CS work is a savings measure - generally speaking, capitation rates for CS is vastly less than mil staff. Its going to be interesting to see how they work this one out - is a wholesale expansion of AGC on the cards to replace the E and D grade staff who currently do admin?
  7. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    The point about the difference between consultants, MoD staff and external service providers is an interesting one.

    The MoD can't even sort out a request for ladders...

    Its a bit of an old story (last Sep) but why does what seem like an improved ladder need outsourcing to BMT to come up with the answers?

    What is going on when we have to outsource this kind of request?

    This isn't a contractor on the MoD payroll but is still outsourcing what should be an MoD owned job
  8. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Jim's only a young chap - those of us around when Mrs T saved enormous wads of cash by civilianising many functions - such as guarding camps - can look on this and laugh. Just compare the Cap Rate of a Cpl or Sgt with a Band D, and you'll see what I mean :) Replacing Civvies with Mil is a non-starter. Plus of course the army don't really want to take over from the MPGS or most CS.

    In fact, the only way - the ONLY way - to save money on this sort of thing is to put it out to contract, and get people in to do the work who are paid less. Taking into account that the plc they work for has to make a profit, they'll be paid a lot less. Their bosses have to be paid, as well, as do those who invested in the plc to make it grow. All this has to come from somewhere. It can work - and it can fail. Look to the contracting-out of Messes for an example - I won't say of which..............
  9. msr

    msr LE

    Not when the taxpayer is picking up the tab...
  10. Couldn't of put it better myself - old boys network lining their own pockets, innit?
  11. • "£550m to be saved across the Department, including up to £120m from greater use of collaborative procurement on construction, food and IT as well as better management of the Defence Estate."

    translated..... Bye bye TA centres. Weekends now to be held in church halls or camping in a field :wink:

  12. Here ya go… heavy duty ladder… £105!

    A combat proven design since 4000BC


    Can I collect my bonus now?
  13. -re consultants, I understand MoD have recently relaxed the rules so they can recruit more, quicker. Little changes does it - many are former MoD staff who have been retired early on the Friday, and turn up on Monday as full-time consultants. Different colour pass, less work to do, no responsibility, go home at 1600, weekends free and the boss still hasn't a scoobie what you're doing.
  14. I was in a certain govt dept today, non military, it was absolutely hectic, spending money like their jobs didn't depend on it - window cleaners, new carpets being ordered, new chairs etc - anything to spend the rest of this years budget. If what was being spent by this one dept is multiplied by the number of depts doing the same thing then the final tally is bound to be horrendous.

    Do these people not realise that they might lose their jobs over a bit of carpet? I was actually quite shocked at the waste.

    Socialism - doesn't really get the bigger picture.
  15. Can't beleive we haven't come up with a better system than the current skin flint april to feb - march splurge financial year.

    Why not give the depart X in April. If they have any left, just leave it. Then they have more the next year. It doesn't have to leave the bank, just leave it in the black on a accounts book.

    Then when lightening blows the roof off they may have the money to put it right.