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The MoD possible the most inefficient Dept in the world?

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Further to post#24, "John"(?) also said on DII front page within the last month words to the effect of"... and in an organisation as big as ours I find very surprising that only 6 people lost their jobs last year for poor performance...we really need to be looking at our improving performance incentives...".

I've paraphrased a lot but it is correct in spirit.

Agree wholeheartedly - I understand the CS discipline/dismissal rules have been overhauled. Whether it results in the required cull I don't know, but hopefully it will make punishing failure easier and less time consuming. Using VERS as a method of constructive dismissal was probably not quite what was planned......
 

jim30

LE
I would be a most happy man if we could use the dismissal process properly - my list is long, and my opportunities few. All for robustly defending the CS against unfair attack, but some of its members are a total disgrace and should be fired out of a cannon at the earliest opportunity.
 
D

Davetheclown

Guest
I would be a most happy man if we could use the dismissal process properly - my list is long, and my opportunities few. All for robustly defending the CS against unfair attack, but some of its members are a total disgrace and should be fired out of a cannon at the earliest opportunity.

Jim we operate in similar circles and I think I know the type you are on about,

its been a long time coming,
 

jim30

LE
Dave - you mean the turns up in short sleeve shirts, stinking of BO, couldn't give a damn, not bothered what he does but knows he is entitled to overtime, stress and so on, and is generally a useless waste of space.

A lot fewer out there than there used to be but getting rid of them is a pain - I've relentlessly pushed for years to get rid of underperforming CS, but there is always someone out there (oddly as many Military as civilian) who favour the 'oh give him one last chance' routine...
 
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Davetheclown

Guest
I was sacked from job as a admin clerk many many years ago before joining up. Reason I was sacked, bloody useless. You dont hang on to deadwood in civvy street, but MoD and the civil service never want to sack anyone, just move them sideways and sometimes promoting them, I kid you not.

My favourite game is when a CS meets a civilian equivalent from the private sector. Its plainly obvious to see the country cousin meeting the townie, worlds apart. The civilian is a lot more professional. The CS just gets away for being incompetent, all the time.

Anyhow the CS in my dept will be going shortly, however we are working extra hours covering up his **** ups, we have trained him umpteen times. Also fed up to the back teeth of his flexitime working hours, having someone in the office when its 8-5 for all the uniform guys, but turn up when you want for the CS creates a lot of friction.

Not happy also with having to complain softly softly all the time. I got into hell of a lot of trouble when I called one of them a useless **** and to grow a pair, and pull that admin out there arse. All the lads agreed, but then I had a interview sans coffee and biscuits with the Brigadier.

CS is a safe seat, in a hard to sack job,
 

jim30

LE
Dave - there appears to be some very 'interesting' interpretations of flexitime.

I had an admin clerk who tried to pull the wool over my eyes on this, but HR were genuinely helpful - essentially flexitime means he has the flexibility to turn up at a different start time (e.g. 0930) but must be in by 1000 and then work what is called core hours till 1500 - e.g. he has to be there come what may between 1000-1500 each day, and can finish at a correspondingly later time depending when he started (e.g. 0930 means he finishes at 0530).

He has to have his hours written down (e.g. he cant mess around with the start / finish times) and it has to be agreed by line management. Crucially it doesn't have to be agreed to if the needs of the business don't support it. Most importantly he has to show clearly what TOIL he is taking through flexi (e.g. if he works late one day he needs to have it recorded).

My very strong advice is to watch like a hawk, if possible get him to provide the written agreement on his start times (chances are it doesn't exist) and ask to see his audited timekeeping records. If he has none of those then he is well on the way to gross misconduct.

Delighted to help in more depth via PM as I've done this to death with a member of staff who was abusing the system big time. HR will usually support you 100% on this as they hate people who abuse the system.
 
(e.g. 0930 means he finishes at 0530).

Christ, that's a bit draconian, Jim - not sure I'd like to be in your team! :)
 

bakersfield

Old-Salt
Jim30

Lotta good sense there. I recognise many of whom you speak. I did only one tour (thankfully) in Shabbeywood and saw both sides. Brilliant CSs, but also complete wasters. The latter were encouraged to keep up the good work, and the former denigrated at every turn. But I also saw the same mix in officers. I remember a Colonel in our IPT sending his "equivalent" civvy a load of work to do at home. He knew fine well the guy was just out of intensive care and bed-ridden. Another Colonel stood up for the civvy and banjo'd the twat. Two sides to every story.
 
Dave - there appears to be some very 'interesting' interpretations of flexitime.

I had an admin clerk who tried to pull the wool over my eyes on this, but HR were genuinely helpful - essentially flexitime means he has the flexibility to turn up at a different start time (e.g. 0930) but must be in by 1000 and then work what is called core hours till 1500 - e.g. he has to be there come what may between 1000-1500 each day, and can finish at a correspondingly later time depending when he started (e.g. 0930 means he finishes at 0530).

He has to have his hours written down (e.g. he cant mess around with the start / finish times) and it has to be agreed by line management. Crucially it doesn't have to be agreed to if the needs of the business don't support it. Most importantly he has to show clearly what TOIL he is taking through flexi (e.g. if he works late one day he needs to have it recorded).

My very strong advice is to watch like a hawk, if possible get him to provide the written agreement on his start times (chances are it doesn't exist) and ask to see his audited timekeeping records. If he has none of those then he is well on the way to gross misconduct.

Delighted to help in more depth via PM as I've done this to death with a member of staff who was abusing the system big time. HR will usually support you 100% on this as they hate people who abuse the system.
After 14 years of fixed shifts, I'm now on 7 week roster that has two consecutive weeks of flexi-time, and I love it.

I have negotiated an ad-hoc change to my flexi. I do 42hrs a week (inc lunches) so when on flexi I do 4x 10.5hr shifts and take Friday or Monday off.
 

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