The Military lobby: how do we create one?

#1
If one lesson is to be learned from the entire SDSR debacle it is that the government neither fully understands nor cares about the forces.

Namely because Defence doesn't win votes.

If we EVER expect to once again have a creible independent military force then there NEEDS to be a "green vote", namely a significant portion of people (1-3million) whos vote will depend, in part, to defence spending decisions. And thus make the governmnet properly fund defence.

The question I put to you is HOW could this be done?
 
#2
Identify a clear, imminent & credible threat to the territorial security of the United Kingdom.

There is no other way defence, or more specifically defence spending will become a voting issue for anyone outside of Forces families.
 
#3
So essentially state that Iran HAS a nuclear weapon and must be terminated with extreme prejudice.
 
#4
So essentially state that Iran HAS a nuclear weapon and must be terminated with extreme prejudice.
Has one attached to the end of a rocket that can reach London, has it pointed in that general direction and are doing a lot of shouting about the Queen being the antiallah.
 
#5
Basically. Unfortunately for all the Brtish people's love of the armed forces, they don't see when they get cut apart from in the newspapers while other areas directly affect them. Until people are afraid for our own security, there'll never be a strong defence lobby. Although I should imagine it's now going to be a Labour selling point to 'restore the greatness of our armed forces'
 
#6
Just a quick one, where is the cash going to come from to pay for all the toys? Get real, as a country we are broke. I would have thought that enough lobbying went on by the likes of BAE systems and all the other arms manufacturers that have been charging the MoD over inflated prices for decades. Even with their attempts to arm twist the government with the threat of job cuts we still have the cuts.

I suppose you will want an Armed Forces Union next.
 
#7
If one lesson is to be learned from the entire SDSR debacle it is that the government neither fully understands nor cares about the forces.

Namely because Defence doesn't win votes.

If we EVER expect to once again have a creible independent military force then there NEEDS to be a "green vote", namely a significant portion of people (1-3million) whos vote will depend, in part, to defence spending decisions. And thus make the governmnet properly fund defence.

The question I put to you is HOW could this be done?
I'm surprised that it's taken the SDSR debacle for you to realise that ANY government neither fully understands nor cares about the forces.

Never has.

Never will.
 
#8
Just a quick one, where is the cash going to come from to pay for all the toys? Get real, as a country we are broke. I would have thought that enough lobbying went on by the likes of BAE systems and all the other arms manufacturers that have been charging the MoD over inflated prices for decades. Even with their attempts to arm twist the government with the threat of job cuts we still have the cuts.

I suppose you will want an Armed Forces Union next.
The point is the country has money for everything BUT defence, namely overseas aid, The EU, devolved politicans, bogus asylum seekers and lets not forget all that money being poured into entertainment for the prison population bless em!

It isn't about what the country can afford, it is about the politicians deliberately undermining our forces and our country in the hope of us all becoming good european citizens.

They are a bunch of f*cking criminals who only care about their own bank accounts and keeping their snouts in the trough!
 
#9
The point is the country has money for everything BUT defence, namely overseas aid, The EU, devolved politicans, bogus asylum seekers and lets not forget all that money being poured into entertainment for the prison population bless em!
EU does make a MASSIVE profit in terms of favorable trade bearing in mind that something like 90% of our trade is within it; the UKIP stuff is pure bullshit. That is, oddly enough, why we joined them in the first place.
 
#10
EU does make a MASSIVE profit in terms of favorable trade bearing in mind that something like 90% of our trade is within it; the UKIP stuff is pure bullshit. That is, oddly enough, why we joined them in the first place.
That is absolute bollocks we joined a trading bloc in order to make trade easier not a f*cking superstate.

Besides we pay FAR more into the EU than we ever get back from the corrupt, dictatorial b*stards.

Notwithstanding the fact that it would be illegal for the EU to put trade sanctions in place under WHO rules. A trade agreement is one thing anyway... the cost of the sneaky federal state being illegaly imposed on us is quiet another. You do realise that ALL EU treaties have been signed illegally under English Law don't you? The Hundreds of billions we have paid is actually theft of our nations wealth.

Now I'm sure your such a democrat that you will agree it is criminal that we have been denied ANY say on EU membership or will you use the worn out "Representative" democracy argument?

The VAST majority of UK people want a referendum and were promised one by ALL parties. Until we get our say, nothing those parties do regarding Europe has any legality because they do not represent us anymore. On the contrary they are guilty of treason.
 
#11
The VAST majority of UK people want a referendum and were promised one by ALL parties. Until we get our say, nothing those parties do regarding Europe has any legality because they do not represent us anymore. On the contrary they are guilty of treason.
You could well be right. I wouldn't invest to much time, money or indeed hope in ever seeing a prosecution on those charges though ;o)
 
#12
The Military lobby: how do we create one?

ARRSE is trolled by journos all the time. Let's set one up. Piece of piss.
 
#13
The point is the country has money for everything BUT defence, namely overseas aid, The EU, devolved politicans, bogus asylum seekers and lets not forget all that money being poured into entertainment for the prison population bless em!

It isn't about what the country can afford, it is about the politicians deliberately undermining our forces and our country in the hope of us all becoming good european citizens.

They are a bunch of f*cking criminals who only care about their own bank accounts and keeping their snouts in the trough!
Yes I agree with what you say about politicians, self serving, self seeking cnuts and on the whole I believe that most are only out for number one. The problem is that they are a necessary evil. We have to have some form of Government otherwise it is anarchy. Dont forget we can get rid of Cameroon and Clog in 5 years if we have the will.
Overseas Aid is used to buy influence in those areas of the world where the resources are, why do you think the Chinese have such a presence in those countries in Africa with natural resources, those resources that are finite. In maintaining that aid, we are maintaining a stake in the future.
 
#15
Form a party.... fill it with wounded veterans, call it "Protest Vote" you never know....
 
#16
Yes. Vote for Dead Millipede in 2015!

(I wonder?)
There's always the chance that the insect vote will arrive before then. The Bubbles and the Frogs are already tearing up the cobblestones, but of course, we Brits have better things to do, like collecting tokens for a super holiday in the Daily Mail or ranting about people who drive slowly in the middle lane on the motorway. We've all done it.

And we put up with tons and tons more shiite than the rest of Europe as a result.
 
#17
How many men and women have served in the Armed Forces in the last, let's say, 30 years? Can anyone crunch those numbers? I don't think it'll be far off the 1-2 million mark. Especially if we add in those who understand (without needing to serve) the importance of defence spending.

Maybe a "Tea Party" type organisation, without the right-leaning politics. Basically offering support to any candidate who publically supports the forces. Put together a balanced, coherent agenda and get candidates to sign off on it. In return they get help with campaigning and the public support of the lobby.
 
#18
A kind of:

"Calling all old duffers and military sorts- YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU!"

That sort of thing?
 
#19
That is absolute bollocks we joined a trading bloc in order to make trade easier not a f*cking superstate.

Besides we pay FAR more into the EU than we ever get back from the corrupt, dictatorial b*stards.
True. We pay them more than they pay us. However more to the point we DON'T pay them massive duties which non-EU countries do when trying to sell stuff to EU members or buy from them. This saves us a mass more money than we pay them; notwithstanding the fact that since our trade is easier, we can have more traders meaning more money. You could always look at it as 'every party has decided, upon getting into power, not to allow the UK to leave' - to me that means they have found that actually leaving it would be such a disaster that they frankly can't trust the masses with that decision.


Notwithstanding the fact that it would be illegal for the EU to put trade sanctions in place under WHO rules. A trade agreement is one thing anyway... the cost of the sneaky federal state being illegaly imposed on us is quiet another. You do realise that ALL EU treaties have been signed illegally under English Law don't you? The Hundreds of billions we have paid is actually theft of our nations wealth.

Now I'm sure your such a democrat that you will agree it is criminal that we have been denied ANY say on EU membership or will you use the worn out "Representative" democracy argument?
There was one originally (correct me if I'm wrong) but as I said it's a matter which you can't take an informed decision on without being hugely educated and knowledgeable about these things and the consequences of getting wrong would be a disaster. In a country which can be convinced that Cher Lloyd is worth anything more than an emergency sandbag, that's not really up to the people at large.

Which is exactly why we elect politicians to make these decisions. Rousseau or someone had some interesting ideas in which he contrasted the will of all with the general will: for example if you asked motorway drivers they would all want to be able to drive as fast as they wanted [the will of all, which shines through in 'pure' democracy] , but in reality because that would mean massive road deaths what is in their best interests is a speed limit [the 'general will' - people wish EVERYONE ELSE would drive at 80 while they sped quite safely along at 150 because they're so much better drivers; so an 80mph speed limit is the best solution]. I think that applies here.

The VAST majority of UK people want a referendum and were promised one by ALL parties. Until we get our say, nothing those parties do regarding Europe has any legality because they do not represent us anymore. On the contrary they are guilty of treason.
Calm down! They have legality as long as the Queen says they are in government. Any argument based on the lines of 'people want this to happen, so until the government does it then the government's illigitimate' is flawed - imagine if 'everyone wanted' for something crazy like the imposition of Simon Cowell as dictator - the government would have a moral duty to prevent that in my view. They're there to do what's best for Britain, not to do what makes them popular. It's certainly not treason; I think we can safely assume that they're all human and none of them want to see British independance go down the drain for no good reason
 
#20
Bismarck often created military scares with France before pushing a bill through parliament (which was then less likely to oppose it) increasing the size of the military, canny and could be done now but I don't believe there's much appetite for it. I think that you're asking the wrong question though, people quite rightly believe that having the worlds 4th highest defense expenditure is enough and perhaps larger than our place in the world - the question is to get the capability out of it.
 

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